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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 22 March 2016

22 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill

I, too, pay tribute to Dr Nanette Milne. Over the years, we have agreed, we have disagreed and we have agreed to disagree, but there has been no malice when we have disagreed. Dr Milne’s service in the Parliament and, previously, as a councillor has been a great thing for Aberdeen, and I wish her and her husband Alan all the best for the future. I am sure that she will keep him very busy indeed.

We have given the bill a great deal of scrutiny, and there are a number of provisions in it that will make things much better than they were previously. The provisions on inspectors are to be welcomed, the introduction of a licensing regime for funeral directors is certainly a good thing and the reuse of lairs has been a long time coming. There are other measures that are important, too, even though they have not featured prominently in the debate thus far. The recording process must be improved, and the bill provides for that. During the Local Government and Regeneration Committee’s deliberations, Willie Coffey mentioned that a lot and made a significant contribution, and I think that the passing of the bill will mean that we end up with a much better system in that regard.

Fraser Sutherland of Citizens Advice Scotland told the Local Government and Regeneration Committee that Citizens Advice Scotland had seen a 35 per cent increase in the number of clients who were concerned about funeral issues and affordability.

During our evidence-taking sessions, we noted that there are huge differences between the costs in various places. For example, the cost of a lair and an interment is £694 in the Western Isles but £2,785 in East Dunbartonshire. That is an astronomical figure. For a local authority cremation and the scattering of ashes, the cost is £512 in Inverclyde but £749 in Perth and Kinross. A private cremation costs £585 in Paisley but £830 in Moray.

I am pleased that the Government has agreed to organise a national funeral poverty conference and round-table discussions between ministers and stakeholders to look at the matter and promote action. As the funeral payments powers are being devolved, now is the right time to look at all the issues. As other members have said, people struggle with paying for the funerals of loved ones, and we must do all that we can to ensure that we get it right.

The bill covers a huge number of issues. As we heard this morning, one controversial issue that has been discussed is the distance between crematoria and housing. We need to look at the planning guidance, but I do not think that it is just housing that is the problem. If we are going to have limitations, they should include commercial property, too. We also need to look at the current position. As I said earlier, we have a crematorium here in Edinburgh that has housing right on the doorstep. If we had agreed to Mr Wilson’s proposal, it would have been extremely difficult to reconstruct or refurbish that crematorium should there be an application to do so. We have to trust planning authorities to look at the matter carefully, take local circumstances into account and act accordingly.

The issue probably requires more than a four-minute speech, but as that is all that I have today, I will finish. I hope that we will agree to pass the bill at decision time.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15996, in the name of Maureen Watt, on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill. Before I invite the mini...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Sport (Shona Robison) SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I wish to advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Burial and...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Many thanks. I call Maureen Watt to speak to and move the motion. 11:11
The Minister for Public Health (Maureen Watt) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 3 debate on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, the Local Gover...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I would like to start in the same way as the minister by thanking the Health and Sport Committee, the Local Government and Regeneration Committee and the Del...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Thank you. I call Dr Nanette Milne. Members might want to note that this is Dr Milne’s valedictory speech. On behalf of the Parliament, I would like to than...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Thank you very much for those kind words, Presiding Officer. Of the seven bills that the Health and Sport Committee dealt with during this session of the Pa...
The Minister for Sport, Health Improvement and Mental Health (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
No pressure, Jackson.
Nanette Milne Con
Jackson Carlaw quickly absorbed the detail of our health service, which I have lived and breathed for a long time. It has been a privilege to represent the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We wish you every success in the future, of course. We move to the open debate, with six-minute speeches. 11:32
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
I enjoyed Nanette Milne’s valedictory speech, although she had me googling Nanette Newman to double check that I know who that is, and I do. Unfortunately, I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Before we proceed, I should apologise to Parliament for having inadvertently misled it. I am expecting four-minute speeches in this debate, but there is quit...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
I pay tribute to Nanette Milne for the massive contribution that she has made on health and other issues during her 13 years in the Parliament. I have enjoye...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I, too, pay tribute to Dr Nanette Milne. Over the years, we have agreed, we have disagreed and we have agreed to disagree, but there has been no malice when ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
Thank you, Mr Stewart. You actually got five minutes. 11:48
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I join others in paying tribute to Nanette Milne for her valedictory speech, but also for her service to the Parliament. She is always thoughtful and conside...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Is Rhoda Grant saying that she does not trust councillors to make commonsense decisions in that regard?
Rhoda Grant Lab
The next time that I hear Kevin Stewart complaining about a council planning decision, I will remind him of his words. I think that we are all aware of counc...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Like others, I welcome the bill and anticipate its passage come decision time. Burials and cremations are, of course, a very important part of most people’s...
Lesley Brennan (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As many members have said, the bill covers many sensitive topics. I have focused on funeral poverty because of my experience as a councillor and, as I mentio...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to speak in this important debate on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill, particularly as I am a member of the Health and Sport Committee...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (Ind) Ind
I put on record my thanks to Dr Nanette Milne for her quiet words, particularly when we served together on the Public Petitions Committee. It has always been...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We turn to closing speeches. I invite the two colleagues who have participated in the debate and are missing to return to the chamber. 12:13
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
The bill is a contract between the Parliament and the parents who reacted with anguish, bewilderment, astonishment and dismay earlier in the parliamentary se...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will the member give way?
Jackson Carlaw Con
I know that his contribution was well intentioned; maybe the folks—as Kevin Stewart likes to refer to them—in old Aberdeen do things differently up there. Ho...
Kevin Stewart SNP
I know that we all get upset from time to time about planning decisions. However, in sensitive cases such as the ones that we have discussed, councillors nor...
Jackson Carlaw Con
As Kevin Stewart said, councillors “normally” act wisely. That underlines the point that there must be occasions on which they do not act in that way. John W...
Jenny Marra Lab
Since I have two opportunities to speak in the debate, I will use this one to pay tribute to some of my colleagues who are leaving Parliament. As several o...
Maureen Watt SNP
I thank all members for their contribution to the debate. Throughout the bill’s progress, there has been strong support for its principles. I am grateful to...