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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 22 March 2016

22 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill
Watt, Maureen SNP Aberdeen South and North Kincardine Watch on SPTV

I thank all members for their contribution to the debate.

Throughout the bill’s progress, there has been strong support for its principles. I am grateful to members for the quality of their contributions, not only this morning but throughout the bill’s progress through Parliament.

I again thank the committees that dealt with the bill. It is always difficult when a bill is in front of two committees, but the Health and Sport Committee and the Local Government and Regeneration Committee have done a good job with this bill. I thank the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, and its convener Nigel Don, for that committee’s detailed look at bills. Nigel Don has brought specific insight into the working of this Parliament and has always had a slightly different take on bills as they have gone through Parliament, for which I thank him.

I pay tribute to Duncan McNeil as the convener of the Health and Sport Committee, and to the thoughtful way in which he dealt with witnesses and ministers at the committee. I had a tear in my eye when, last week, he spoke on giving legislative consent to the Scotland Bill in his final speech.

I thank the bill team for their support and the stakeholders who helped in the construction of the bill. In particular, I thank Dr Simon Cuthbert-Kerr, who has lived and breathed the bill for months. I am sure that he wakes up thinking about the bill, but he will now be able to get his life back and get back to playing in his band, which he does so well.

Malcolm Chisholm said that he has not yet made his final speech in Parliament, but I pay tribute to all the work that he has done both in this Parliament and in the other place. He, too, has had a colourful and distinguished career in politics, and I commend him for that.

I will also miss Nanette Milne, and not just when I take the train up to Aberdeen on a Thursday night—a journey that we have shared on many occasions. The number of cross-party groups on health that there are in the Parliament has exceeded all expectations, and she has done her utmost to represent the Conservative Party on many of them. She and I have worked together at local government level, at Grampian regional level and at district level, and she has made a huge contribution to political life in the north-east. I am sure that I will still see her, as her son lives quite near me, and that she will continue her interest in the arts scene in the north-east. I, too, wish her and Alan a happy retirement.

There can be no doubt that the bill makes some much-needed changes to burial and cremation processes. I believe that it will create a legislative framework for burial and cremation that will meet the needs of 21st century Scotland. It will remove the inconsistency that is apparent and will make processes easier to understand and more reliable. When we are arranging a funeral, we should be able to expect a straightforward and transparent process that makes things easier, not more difficult, and I think that the bill will provide that.

Many of the topics covered by the bill are extremely sensitive. As the bill has made its way through Parliament, we have heard from people who have experienced loss in unimaginable circumstances, and those experiences alone should be reason enough for us to address the shortcomings in the current system.

Bob Doris made an important point about the need for health professionals and others to deal sensitively with pregnancy loss at whatever stage it occurs. In particular, the new processes that will be put in place in relation to pregnancy loss and stillbirth will address many of the issues that were identified by Lord Bonomy, as Rhoda Grant and Richard Lyle mentioned. It is really important that we prevent a repeat of previous mistakes, and I believe that the bill will do that. However, this is in no way the end of the process, as Dame Elish Angiolini has still to report on some of the mishandling of ashes at crematoria throughout Scotland.

Throughout the bill’s passage, much has been said about the role of funeral directors. Although it is possible to organise a funeral without using a funeral director, in the majority of cases people turn to funeral directors for their expertise and experience. In most cases, funeral directors provide a high-quality service but we are all aware, from our constituency cases, of poor service and high costs that can be difficult to understand. It is important that we can rely on funeral directors when we have to.

Therefore, the bill allows ministers to introduce a licensing scheme for funeral directors that will establish basic criteria for anyone who wants to operate as a funeral director and which will prevent those who fail to meet standards from doing so. The new inspection powers will bring a level of scrutiny to funeral directors—indeed, to the funeral industry as a whole—that has never been seen in Scotland. I am confident that that will drive up standards and consistency, helping people to know that they will receive the same level of care and service from all parts of the industry.

Before the Scottish Government commits to the licensing of funeral directors, however, it is important that we better understand the current state of the industry. That will ensure that any scheme that is introduced reflects best practice and addresses specific concerns. I therefore intend to use the inspectors who are appointed under the bill to monitor the industry and make recommendations about licensing.

During the bill’s passage, there has also been much debate about funeral costs. The bill is likely to influence costs to a degree, as it requires local authorities to publish all costs relating to burial and cremation, which will help to improve transparency. It is also likely that the introduction of inspection and the potential introduction of licensing for funeral directors will help to improve cost transparency and consistency.

At this stage, I pay tribute to Lesley Brennan’s work on funeral poverty in her short time in the Parliament. Like me, she came in at the tail end of a session, and she has immersed herself fully in the Parliament’s work. Lodging an amendment in one’s early days as an MSP is quite daunting, and I congratulate her on all the work that she has done. I wish her well.

As I said in my opening speech, the Scottish Government has recently initiated work to examine funeral poverty. That work, which is being led by the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights, very much builds on Citizens Advice Scotland’s report, “The Cost of Saying Goodbye: Burial and cremation charges in Scotland 2015”, for which we should commend CAS. The cabinet secretary has commissioned further work on the area, which will report early next year and on which there will be a conference, as has been said.

In response to the CAS report, the cabinet secretary has indicated that we will undertake a range of work to address funeral poverty, including speeding up the time taken to make decisions about funeral payments, which Jenny Marra mentioned, once responsibility for that area is devolved to Scotland.

Members have raised other parts of the bill on which we have perhaps not spent much time today. Kevin Stewart and others have mentioned reusing lairs and revitalising old burial grounds in our city and town centres, which will be important going forward.

The bill makes important changes in an area that few of us wish to think about but which, as Stewart Stevenson said, touches us all at some point. I hope that Parliament will pass the bill unanimously at decision time.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15996, in the name of Maureen Watt, on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill. Before I invite the mini...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Sport (Shona Robison) SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I wish to advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Burial and...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Many thanks. I call Maureen Watt to speak to and move the motion. 11:11
The Minister for Public Health (Maureen Watt) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 3 debate on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, the Local Gover...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I would like to start in the same way as the minister by thanking the Health and Sport Committee, the Local Government and Regeneration Committee and the Del...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Thank you. I call Dr Nanette Milne. Members might want to note that this is Dr Milne’s valedictory speech. On behalf of the Parliament, I would like to than...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Thank you very much for those kind words, Presiding Officer. Of the seven bills that the Health and Sport Committee dealt with during this session of the Pa...
The Minister for Sport, Health Improvement and Mental Health (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
No pressure, Jackson.
Nanette Milne Con
Jackson Carlaw quickly absorbed the detail of our health service, which I have lived and breathed for a long time. It has been a privilege to represent the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We wish you every success in the future, of course. We move to the open debate, with six-minute speeches. 11:32
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
I enjoyed Nanette Milne’s valedictory speech, although she had me googling Nanette Newman to double check that I know who that is, and I do. Unfortunately, I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Before we proceed, I should apologise to Parliament for having inadvertently misled it. I am expecting four-minute speeches in this debate, but there is quit...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
I pay tribute to Nanette Milne for the massive contribution that she has made on health and other issues during her 13 years in the Parliament. I have enjoye...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I, too, pay tribute to Dr Nanette Milne. Over the years, we have agreed, we have disagreed and we have agreed to disagree, but there has been no malice when ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
Thank you, Mr Stewart. You actually got five minutes. 11:48
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I join others in paying tribute to Nanette Milne for her valedictory speech, but also for her service to the Parliament. She is always thoughtful and conside...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Is Rhoda Grant saying that she does not trust councillors to make commonsense decisions in that regard?
Rhoda Grant Lab
The next time that I hear Kevin Stewart complaining about a council planning decision, I will remind him of his words. I think that we are all aware of counc...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Like others, I welcome the bill and anticipate its passage come decision time. Burials and cremations are, of course, a very important part of most people’s...
Lesley Brennan (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As many members have said, the bill covers many sensitive topics. I have focused on funeral poverty because of my experience as a councillor and, as I mentio...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to speak in this important debate on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill, particularly as I am a member of the Health and Sport Committee...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (Ind) Ind
I put on record my thanks to Dr Nanette Milne for her quiet words, particularly when we served together on the Public Petitions Committee. It has always been...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We turn to closing speeches. I invite the two colleagues who have participated in the debate and are missing to return to the chamber. 12:13
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
The bill is a contract between the Parliament and the parents who reacted with anguish, bewilderment, astonishment and dismay earlier in the parliamentary se...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will the member give way?
Jackson Carlaw Con
I know that his contribution was well intentioned; maybe the folks—as Kevin Stewart likes to refer to them—in old Aberdeen do things differently up there. Ho...
Kevin Stewart SNP
I know that we all get upset from time to time about planning decisions. However, in sensitive cases such as the ones that we have discussed, councillors nor...
Jackson Carlaw Con
As Kevin Stewart said, councillors “normally” act wisely. That underlines the point that there must be occasions on which they do not act in that way. John W...
Jenny Marra Lab
Since I have two opportunities to speak in the debate, I will use this one to pay tribute to some of my colleagues who are leaving Parliament. As several o...
Maureen Watt SNP
I thank all members for their contribution to the debate. Throughout the bill’s progress, there has been strong support for its principles. I am grateful to...