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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 22 March 2016

22 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill
Wilson, John Ind Central Scotland Watch on SPTV

I put on record my thanks to Dr Nanette Milne for her quiet words, particularly when we served together on the Public Petitions Committee. It has always been a pleasure to work with Nanette. I think that it is appropriate to mention the sage advice that she has given in comments in passing in the corridor.

Today we will pass a bill, which will become an act. Earlier, members heard my concerns about one area of the bill where we missed out on an opportunity to modernise. Many witnesses told the Local Government and Regeneration Committee that the Parliament should try to ensure that the bill is fit for the 21st century. In the written submissions and oral evidence that we received from local authorities, issues were raised about the retention of some type of buffer zone between crematoria and residential properties.

I wait with interest to hear the minister’s assurance that Scottish planning policy will result in guidance being issued to local authorities. However, my concern is that, although we have guidance in the Scottish planning policy, as other members—such as Rhoda Grant—indicated, that guidance is too often overturned in decisions that are made not by local authorities, which try to follow the guidance, but by other bodies that are above local authorities.

Local authorities spend three years carrying out local plan consultations with local communities to find that, after that process, Scottish Government ministers and the planning and environmental appeals division—the DPEA—totally ignore the local plans when it comes to housing development proposals. I would like to think that, when the minister takes the issue back to her colleagues to consider the way forward, she will take on board the need to ensure that guidance applies to all.

I congratulate Lesley Brennan on her perseverance, which got her amendment 1 accepted by the Scottish Government and agreed to by the Parliament. It is important that we address fuel poverty—sorry, I meant funeral poverty, although fuel poverty is equally important.

When we took evidence at the Local Government and Regeneration Committee, we heard the costs of some of the burials that take place in Scotland. The most expensive was East Dunbartonshire Council, where the cost of a lair and interment was £2,785, and the cheapest was Western Isles Council at £694. When such costs are presented to us and we then hear and read that local authorities are increasing them by 15 per cent this year, we realise the importance and the urgency of the minister’s working group addressing the concern. We need to get something in place so that people do not end up being unable to claim a family member’s body because of the differences in funeral costs and the fear of having to pay them.

At committee, we also heard evidence from a chaplain from the Scottish Prison Service that, when people die in prison, family members are not encouraged to claim the body because they will be liable for the costs of the funeral or cremation. In the 21st century, we cannot say to individuals that it is better for them not to claim their loved one’s body because they may be put into further financial hardship.

I think that the Parliament will vote for the bill and it will become an act. I support it with the caveats that I mentioned: I hope that the minister will address the concerns that have been raised and ensure that we do not find developers chapping on the door of local authorities and other bodies to erode further the barriers between crematoria and housing.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15996, in the name of Maureen Watt, on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill. Before I invite the mini...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Sport (Shona Robison) SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I wish to advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Burial and...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Many thanks. I call Maureen Watt to speak to and move the motion. 11:11
The Minister for Public Health (Maureen Watt) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 3 debate on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, the Local Gover...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I would like to start in the same way as the minister by thanking the Health and Sport Committee, the Local Government and Regeneration Committee and the Del...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Thank you. I call Dr Nanette Milne. Members might want to note that this is Dr Milne’s valedictory speech. On behalf of the Parliament, I would like to than...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Thank you very much for those kind words, Presiding Officer. Of the seven bills that the Health and Sport Committee dealt with during this session of the Pa...
The Minister for Sport, Health Improvement and Mental Health (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
No pressure, Jackson.
Nanette Milne Con
Jackson Carlaw quickly absorbed the detail of our health service, which I have lived and breathed for a long time. It has been a privilege to represent the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We wish you every success in the future, of course. We move to the open debate, with six-minute speeches. 11:32
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
I enjoyed Nanette Milne’s valedictory speech, although she had me googling Nanette Newman to double check that I know who that is, and I do. Unfortunately, I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Before we proceed, I should apologise to Parliament for having inadvertently misled it. I am expecting four-minute speeches in this debate, but there is quit...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
I pay tribute to Nanette Milne for the massive contribution that she has made on health and other issues during her 13 years in the Parliament. I have enjoye...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I, too, pay tribute to Dr Nanette Milne. Over the years, we have agreed, we have disagreed and we have agreed to disagree, but there has been no malice when ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
Thank you, Mr Stewart. You actually got five minutes. 11:48
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I join others in paying tribute to Nanette Milne for her valedictory speech, but also for her service to the Parliament. She is always thoughtful and conside...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Is Rhoda Grant saying that she does not trust councillors to make commonsense decisions in that regard?
Rhoda Grant Lab
The next time that I hear Kevin Stewart complaining about a council planning decision, I will remind him of his words. I think that we are all aware of counc...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Like others, I welcome the bill and anticipate its passage come decision time. Burials and cremations are, of course, a very important part of most people’s...
Lesley Brennan (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As many members have said, the bill covers many sensitive topics. I have focused on funeral poverty because of my experience as a councillor and, as I mentio...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to speak in this important debate on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill, particularly as I am a member of the Health and Sport Committee...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (Ind) Ind
I put on record my thanks to Dr Nanette Milne for her quiet words, particularly when we served together on the Public Petitions Committee. It has always been...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We turn to closing speeches. I invite the two colleagues who have participated in the debate and are missing to return to the chamber. 12:13
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
The bill is a contract between the Parliament and the parents who reacted with anguish, bewilderment, astonishment and dismay earlier in the parliamentary se...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will the member give way?
Jackson Carlaw Con
I know that his contribution was well intentioned; maybe the folks—as Kevin Stewart likes to refer to them—in old Aberdeen do things differently up there. Ho...
Kevin Stewart SNP
I know that we all get upset from time to time about planning decisions. However, in sensitive cases such as the ones that we have discussed, councillors nor...
Jackson Carlaw Con
As Kevin Stewart said, councillors “normally” act wisely. That underlines the point that there must be occasions on which they do not act in that way. John W...
Jenny Marra Lab
Since I have two opportunities to speak in the debate, I will use this one to pay tribute to some of my colleagues who are leaving Parliament. As several o...
Maureen Watt SNP
I thank all members for their contribution to the debate. Throughout the bill’s progress, there has been strong support for its principles. I am grateful to...