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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 16 March 2016

16 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Land Reform (Scotland) Bill

I am very conscious this evening, after a very long day of debate, that we are now reflecting upon where we stand not just now but for the future.

We stand in two historical streams. One is the stream of those who recognise the scars on the Scottish psyche that were caused by the very unnatural pattern of land ownership in Scotland and by the great injustices that went with that. Next month is the 200th anniversary of the trial of Patrick Sellar. I had an email from a landowner some time ago who—please forgive the language, Presiding Officer, but it is a quote—said that

“oafs like me dredge up crap from hundreds of years ago in this debate”.

We cannot understand the importance of this debate without understanding that stream—the stream of injustice, which Johann Lamont also referred to. Before her, the great Bob Grieve also talked about resolving the problems of Glasgow and of the Highlands and Islands.

The other stream that we stand in is the stream of those who have attempted to do something about those injustices, from the 19th century onwards. There were those in the Land League, through the early years of the 20th century, and there was the work of people such as Tom Johnston. In the 21st century, there has been the work of the first Labour-Liberal Scottish Executive, and I pay tribute to Donald Dewar’s passion for the issue. There is also the work of academics and activists such as James Hunter and Andy Wightman.

I regret that I did not get the opportunity to take land reform forward in government as environment minister. When Joe FitzPatrick rang me shortly after I left Government and asked me which committee I wished to serve on, I said, without hesitation, that I wished to be on the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee—because of this issue. I wished to play a role in the next stage of land reform in Scotland. That was partly because of a huge constituency interest, but also because of a huge environmental interest and a historical interest.

It was also because land reform presents a particular problem to this Parliament: the problem of implementing a vision of a just, fair and equitable Scotland in terms of land ownership, but doing so without the full powers of a normal Parliament. As we have seen today, the powers to deal with money laundering or company law would have helped us with some of the issues that we needed to address.

There is also the challenge of dealing with the legacy of inaction over a long period of time. We cannot divorce the issues that we were addressing today, such as deer management, from the legacy of inaction that has led us here.

The Minister for Business, Energy and Tourism (Fergus Ewing) rose

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15925, in the name of Aileen McLeod, on the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill. I invite members who wish to spe...
The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Food and Environment (Richard Lochhead) SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I advise Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Land Reform (Scotland)...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Today marks an important new chapter in Scotland’s land reform story. Scottish Labour has worked hard and, I hope, in a co-operative manner to secure stronge...
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
I call Alex Fergusson. This will be Mr Fergusson’s final speech in the chamber. 17:56
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I start by drawing members’ attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I thank the clerks to the Rural Affai...
Michael Russell (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) SNP
Will the member reflect on the fact that what he says about a competitive disadvantage would be true only if shooting were price sensitive? There is no evide...
Alex Fergusson Con
I hear what the member says, but if he had listened to my contribution when we were discussing amendments, he would have heard me quoting the British Associa...
Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
Does Alex Fergusson have any evidence that there has been improvement and non-decline in the tenanted sector over the past 20, 30 or 40 years?
Alex Fergusson Con
No, but my belief is that, had we worked towards the conversion model that all stakeholders were working towards and making progress with before the new idea...
The Presiding Officer NPA
On behalf of the Parliament, I thank Alex Fergusson for his contribution as an MSP, as a committee convener and, of course, as Presiding Officer between 2007...
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) SNP
In tribute to Alex Fergusson, I have always championed his right to say what he believes to be correct, even if we disagree—very often fundamentally—about hi...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
I am very happy to be involved in this debate, which is very dear to my heart. I would go so far as to say that, alongside seeing what poverty and disadvanta...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
I ask members to note that this will be Dave Thompson’s valedictory speech in our Parliament. We thank him for his nine years of service to the Parliament an...
Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
Thank you very much for your kind remarks, Presiding Officer. I believe that the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill is the single most important bill with which I ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I am a bit concerned that the member is totally ignoring the role of people such as Brian Wilson in the land reform debate. The member is ignoring what Brian...
Dave Thompson SNP
I do not really understand the relevance of the member’s comment to what I was saying. While we are talking about the Tories, I must correct the record foll...
Alex Fergusson Con
Will the member give way?
Dave Thompson SNP
I am sorry, but I need to make progress. I have a few other points that I need to get in. The transformative effects of the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill shou...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD) LD
Liberal Democrats have long been advocates of land reform in Scotland, so it may be fitting to recognise the work of Ross Finnie, the Lib Dem minister who le...
Rob Gibson SNP
The member should realise that, when the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill was passed in 2003, there were more than 230 amendments to it, and I am sure that a simi...
Jim Hume LD
I appreciate that intervention from Rob Gibson, and I think that he would also appreciate that, whoever is in Government, it is always best to get the amendm...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP) SNP
I am not sure about the analogies to giving birth, but today feels a little like waving a child off into the big bad world. You have invested considerable ti...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
It is concerning to learn that so many of the members who spoke in this afternoon’s debate are standing down. One wonders who will be left to do the hard wor...
Michael Russell (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) SNP
I am very conscious this evening, after a very long day of debate, that we are now reflecting upon where we stand not just now but for the future. We stand ...
Michael Russell SNP
I give way to Fergus Ewing.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Mr Ewing—when you are ready. I hope that it is as soon as possible.
Fergus Ewing SNP
My apologies, Presiding Officer. Since Mr Russell has raised the issue of deer management, I will say that recently I had the pleasure of addressing the an...
Michael Russell SNP
That is a very good question. It can be avoided in the future, and I regard leaving carcases in that way and any such practice as unacceptable. The way to re...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
I, too, thank the many people who have been involved in the good work to get us to this point. The policy memorandum says: “Land, both rural and urban, is ...
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
We move to closing speeches. I call Jamie McGrigor. This is Mr McGrigor’s final speech in the Parliament. 19:00