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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 16 March 2016

16 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland Bill

I found a Duncan McNeil speech last night when I was looking forward to this debate. I had some inkling that he would give some thoughts on his very distinguished time in Parliament. In November 2000, he congratulated a good friend of his on becoming the Deputy Minister for Sport and Culture. I suppose that he will remember the speech well: it was about Labour’s consideration of where sport and culture policy should be. He uttered a somewhat pointed phrase in relation to the new minister when he said:

“I wish him every success and look forward to hearing less about Puccini and more about Porrini.”—[Official Report, 2 November 2000; c 1340.]

Duncan McNeil will remember that Porrini was a rather indifferent left back at Ibrox in those days. Puccini is rather well known for other reasons. Duncan McNeil always brought such thoughts to Parliament.

Duncan McNeil also saved me on one occasion when he was chairman of the parliamentary Labour Party. I forget what the issue was—to be frank, I would probably choose to forget what it was—but there had been some carry-on in transport, as there inevitably was. I had to go along to the Labour group to explain some difficulty that had happened—Jackie Baillie is laughing, so it must have been something in her area—and Duncan McNeil said, “Don’t worry. They won’t all eat you before breakfast—probably just later.” I was grateful to him for getting me through that particular meeting.

I want to reflect on what got us here in the first place, as the Deputy First Minister did. I recall a croft discussion in the 1999 election campaign. Someone out in the west of Shetland who was in the middle of his lambing and therefore was not particularly keen to talk to any politician said to me over a gate, “Until you lot have some responsibility for both sides of a croft account”—obviously, he meant the nation’s balance sheet—“your place will not grow up.” That is so, as the Deputy First Minister, Iain Gray and Annabel Goldie have expressed it. Being able to take decisions about both sides of the balance sheet would ensure that we could decide whether to invest in schools or to cut education, whether to create a fair social security system for those who are less fortunate than us in our country or, indeed, to really debate the divisions over tax and spend that affect every citizen and every business, as should happen. That is profoundly important for the Parliament’s future relevance to people, and for its real importance.

Members have mentioned the Smith commission, which is the basis of the legislative consent motion. I concur with the thoughts that have been expressed about Lord Smith, my colleague Mike Moore and all those who served on that body, and the able support provided for it by civil servants in London and Edinburgh.

I pay tribute to John Swinney not only for his role in that. I agree with Annabel Goldie’s and Iain Gray’s assessments of what has happened in relation to the Scottish Fiscal Commission. I genuinely thank John Swinney for that work, which is profoundly important for now and the longer term.

The Deputy First Minister made an observation that the Smith commission’s recommendations did not go far enough for some and went too far for others. That is true. They do not go far enough for me, in some areas, because I profoundly believe in devolution of power not just to but within Scotland. The area that epitomises that for me is the Crown Estate. It has long been business for many of us—particularly those who represent the islands and have the marine environment to consider day to day—that the Crown Estate responsibilities should not just sit in Edinburgh, but that the management power, and not just the money and the net finance, should be devolved to the islands. I hope that in the next session of Parliament, whoever is the Government of the day, and whoever is Deputy First Minister and First Minister, are able to deliver fully what the Smith commission agreed on the Crown Estate—that is, that the powers and the finances would be devolved to the island areas, including those outwith the islands that I am fortunate enough to represent.

I also agree with Bruce Crawford’s observations on the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee. I do not know what I will do with Thursday mornings from now on after the heaven knows how many running Thursday meetings we have had. However, I thought tomorrow was going to be a nice quiet day, and that I could have maybe read a few papers and caught up with background reading. But oh, no—I must go and speak on crofting law. From the sublime to crofting law.

I thank Bruce Crawford for his very patient and sensible convenership of the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee. That we produced a report that just about had all-party agreement was down to his skills and patience. The very few points that Alex Johnstone dissented from for entirely understandable political reasons were, I suggest, fairly minor in the overall scheme of things. Given the make-up of the Scottish Parliament, it is no mean achievement to come up—on the constitution—with a broadly acceptable package for all.

Can I make two final points, Presiding Officer, or even one, seeing as you are waving at me? There is one area that I want the Deputy First Minister to consider carefully. The review that has been institutionalised in the fiscal framework agreement is significant. What it may do in creating future problems needs to be reflected on very closely, so that we genuinely achieve all that we may out of the legislative consent motion when it is passed later today.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15941, in the name of John Swinney, on the Scotland Bill, which is United Kingdom legislation. 09:00
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy (John Swinney) SNP
I can well remember returning from school on 2 March 1979 to be greeted by my mother with some disappointing news: the yes campaign had not secured enough vo...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I support the motion in Mr Swinney’s name and express my delight that we have arrived at this debate and this question. After all, like him, I spent 10 weeks...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Does Mr Gray think that we have such a UK Government at this moment, which is trying to break the trade unions and public services? Does he think that it wou...
Iain Gray Lab
I do indeed think that we have such a UK Government at the moment, and I will come to what I think about that immediately. Out of the 1980s and 1990s came t...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
This is not my final speech—I understand that that will take place next week—but, in a sense, the bill encapsulates a journey for me that has involved a mark...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Bruce Crawford to speak on behalf of the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee. 09:28
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to speak as the convener of the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee. I thank all the members of the committee, past and present, for the man...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the open debate. 09:34
Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased that we have reached this point, which, as was outlined by the Deputy First Minister, has come from Calman, the Scotland Act 2012 and the promis...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I hear the comments that Linda Fabiani makes, but how do they relate to Lord Smith’s remark that he believes that the vow and the promises of the commission ...
Linda Fabiani SNP
Lord Smith can answer for himself. What I can talk about is what was agreed by the committee, with the exception of Alex Johnstone. The fact is that what was...
Iain Gray Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Linda Fabiani SNP
No, thank you. During the Smith commission sittings, there were overriding themes: the potential use of additional powers, the principle of no detriment, an...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Duncan McNeil. This is Mr McNeil’s final speech in the Parliament. 09:40
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I want to take a moment to thank all the members of the Parliament’s staff who have served me my breakfast, put up with my rant...
The Presiding Officer NPA
On behalf of the Parliament, I thank Duncan McNeil for his contribution as a member, as a member of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, as a committee...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I found a Duncan McNeil speech last night when I was looking forward to this debate. I had some inkling that he would give some thoughts on his very distingu...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Alex Salmond. This is Mr Salmond’s final speech in the Parliament. 09:57
Alex Salmond (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate Annabel Goldie and Duncan McNeil on their service to the Parliament—their contribution has been substantial indeed. However, I say to Duncan M...
The Presiding Officer NPA
On behalf of the Parliament, I thank you for your contribution as an MSP and as the First Minister of Scotland. You have served the Parliament and Scotland w...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I believe that today represents another significant step on the journey of this Parliament, and I feel privileged to have played a part in that process as a ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
You should be drawing to a close.
Stewart Maxwell SNP
I hope that, as we approach the end of this session of Parliament, we do so with a sense of determination to ensure that in the next session Parliament will ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Many thanks. We are now very tight for time. I call Malcolm Chisholm, to be followed by Mark McDonald. Up to six minutes, please. 10:11
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
This is not my final speech, for which I am very grateful, given the number of distinguished final speeches that we have heard this morning. First of all, I ...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
Having served as a member of both the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee and the Finance Committee, I cannot help but feel that a gaping hole is about to ...
Lesley Brennan (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a great honour to speak in this debate and to follow many great parliamentarians who have shaped this place over the past 17 years, and also to speak i...
Stuart McMillan (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Does Lesley Brennan agree with me that the powers that come to this Parliament from the Scotland Bill are very much limited? Does she agree that, no matter w...
Lesley Brennan Lab
I agree that the powers are narrow in their scope, but I think that they could do a great deal of good. I suggest that the Parliament considers devolving the...