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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 16 March 2016

16 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland Bill

I support the motion in Mr Swinney’s name and express my delight that we have arrived at this debate and this question. After all, like him, I spent 10 weeks of my life locked in the Smith commission, thrashing out an agreement on what further powers the Parliament should have.

The one major thing that Smith left undone was the fiscal framework, which was left to be negotiated between the Scottish and UK Governments. I confess that there were times when I thought that those negotiations would break down irrevocably and that the whole agreement would fall. That would have been a travesty.

Although the negotiations were in effect between only two parties—the Scottish National Party and the Tories—those parties were both signatories to the Smith commission report. If the Tory Government had failed to reach agreement, it would have betrayed the promise that was made to the Scottish people at the time of the referendum. Equally, had the Scottish Government failed to reach a deal, it would have meant the grotesque outcome of a nationalist Government being presented with the opportunity to make the Scottish Parliament one of the most powerful devolved legislatures anywhere in the world, through the biggest transfer of powers to Scotland since 1999, but letting that opportunity slip through its fingers.

Happily for me, I was not in the room, so I do not know why the agreement went to the wire, but I know that I agreed with John Swinney’s interpretation of no detriment in the Smith agreement, which is that it applies not simply on the day of devolution but over time, too. I supported him, too, in arguing that the adjusted block grant should not be reduced as a result of differential changes to population. He was correct in arguing that the Barnett formula, which is population based, already adjusts for that, so a further reduction would be superfluous.

I have the highest regard for Mr Swinney as a negotiator—in spite of his many flaws. I take the chance to congratulate him again on reaching a good deal for Scotland and securing the benefits of the Smith agreement and the consequent Scotland Bill. He deserves all our thanks for that. [Applause.]

The devolution story that brings us here this morning has both a longer-term narrative and a more immediate narrative. Mr Swinney also referred to that. From the moment that the Parliament began, it was clear that it was imbalanced. Our Parliament was created with a high degree of legislative competence—with full powers to legislate over many critical areas of our nation’s life—but it was clear that we had little fiscal or financial power. The original variable rate involved a flawed power and was—not surprisingly—never used. The Calman powers began to address that, but the Smith agreement and the Scotland Bill will write the next chapter in the story of devolution.

That is also the final chapter in the more urgent and febrile narrative that was born of the referendum campaign in 2014. The Smith commission and the legislative process that ensued delivered the vow that was made in the final days of that campaign—that remaining in the United Kingdom would mean not the status quo but rather a new devolution settlement and substantial new powers for the Parliament.

It is worth reminding ourselves of what that promise was, since it has been misquoted, misconstrued and used to mislead ever since. The promise was, first, to make the Parliament permanent; secondly, to have substantial devolution of powers over tax and welfare; and, thirdly, to protect the Barnett formula.

The first point was readily agreed in the Smith commission, although it is—admittedly—legislatively awkward to achieve. The second is indisputably delivered with the devolution of some £20 billion of taxation and more than £2 billion of welfare benefits, along with a new power to create our own benefits.

The third point—the protection of the Barnett formula—is delivered by the fiscal agreement, and thereby we continue to benefit from the pooling and sharing of resources across the United Kingdom. That is the bedrock of the social solidarity that binds us together in old age, in unemployment or in starting a family.

In passing, we should not forget that a number of other important responsibilities will devolve to us, such as powers over our democratic structure and elections and, topicaIly, complete control over unconventional gas exploitation—fracking. That has allowed Labour members to make it clear to the Scottish public that we would ban that process.

It is the powers over tax and welfare that will transform and have already begun to transform the Parliament. The debate is the latest thread in a third narrative that is deeper and longer. It was born of the arid years of the 1980s and early 1990s, when we faced a Government that was intent on attacking, not nurturing, our crucial public services, and which was determined to break, not work with, the institutions of social solidarity, such as trade unions. That Government saw division as something strong and bracing, not something weak and destructive.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15941, in the name of John Swinney, on the Scotland Bill, which is United Kingdom legislation. 09:00
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy (John Swinney) SNP
I can well remember returning from school on 2 March 1979 to be greeted by my mother with some disappointing news: the yes campaign had not secured enough vo...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I support the motion in Mr Swinney’s name and express my delight that we have arrived at this debate and this question. After all, like him, I spent 10 weeks...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Does Mr Gray think that we have such a UK Government at this moment, which is trying to break the trade unions and public services? Does he think that it wou...
Iain Gray Lab
I do indeed think that we have such a UK Government at the moment, and I will come to what I think about that immediately. Out of the 1980s and 1990s came t...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
This is not my final speech—I understand that that will take place next week—but, in a sense, the bill encapsulates a journey for me that has involved a mark...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Bruce Crawford to speak on behalf of the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee. 09:28
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to speak as the convener of the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee. I thank all the members of the committee, past and present, for the man...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the open debate. 09:34
Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased that we have reached this point, which, as was outlined by the Deputy First Minister, has come from Calman, the Scotland Act 2012 and the promis...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I hear the comments that Linda Fabiani makes, but how do they relate to Lord Smith’s remark that he believes that the vow and the promises of the commission ...
Linda Fabiani SNP
Lord Smith can answer for himself. What I can talk about is what was agreed by the committee, with the exception of Alex Johnstone. The fact is that what was...
Iain Gray Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Linda Fabiani SNP
No, thank you. During the Smith commission sittings, there were overriding themes: the potential use of additional powers, the principle of no detriment, an...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Duncan McNeil. This is Mr McNeil’s final speech in the Parliament. 09:40
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I want to take a moment to thank all the members of the Parliament’s staff who have served me my breakfast, put up with my rant...
The Presiding Officer NPA
On behalf of the Parliament, I thank Duncan McNeil for his contribution as a member, as a member of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, as a committee...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I found a Duncan McNeil speech last night when I was looking forward to this debate. I had some inkling that he would give some thoughts on his very distingu...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Alex Salmond. This is Mr Salmond’s final speech in the Parliament. 09:57
Alex Salmond (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate Annabel Goldie and Duncan McNeil on their service to the Parliament—their contribution has been substantial indeed. However, I say to Duncan M...
The Presiding Officer NPA
On behalf of the Parliament, I thank you for your contribution as an MSP and as the First Minister of Scotland. You have served the Parliament and Scotland w...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I believe that today represents another significant step on the journey of this Parliament, and I feel privileged to have played a part in that process as a ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
You should be drawing to a close.
Stewart Maxwell SNP
I hope that, as we approach the end of this session of Parliament, we do so with a sense of determination to ensure that in the next session Parliament will ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Many thanks. We are now very tight for time. I call Malcolm Chisholm, to be followed by Mark McDonald. Up to six minutes, please. 10:11
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
This is not my final speech, for which I am very grateful, given the number of distinguished final speeches that we have heard this morning. First of all, I ...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
Having served as a member of both the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee and the Finance Committee, I cannot help but feel that a gaping hole is about to ...
Lesley Brennan (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
It is a great honour to speak in this debate and to follow many great parliamentarians who have shaped this place over the past 17 years, and also to speak i...
Stuart McMillan (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Does Lesley Brennan agree with me that the powers that come to this Parliament from the Scotland Bill are very much limited? Does she agree that, no matter w...
Lesley Brennan Lab
I agree that the powers are narrow in their scope, but I think that they could do a great deal of good. I suggest that the Parliament considers devolving the...