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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 March 2016

10 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill

Presiding Officer, I did not realise until now that this would be my last speech. You obviously know something that I do not. The whip in this Parliament must move in very mysterious ways. I hope that I do not get dragged into anything next week or the week after.

This has been a short debate. It is always a difficult job to sum up only a handful of speeches since I last spoke. However, the starting point must be that we all want the bill to pass. As I said in my opening speech, the bill is considerably better than it was at the start. For that reason alone, it deserves the support of the entire Parliament.

If we examine the genesis of fiscal commissions throughout the world—why they came about and come about—we find that, in almost all cases, the reason that a fiscal commission came about was that there was a big recession, a downturn that was not predicted or a downturn that turned out to be demonstrably worse than anyone predicted and that it was all driven by optimism bias from Government. Therefore, Government after Government has set up a fiscal commission to ensure that the pence and the pounds are managed, to ensure that optimism bias is minimised or, indeed, eradicated and to get independent expertise along with a set of checks and balances. That is one of the reasons why we are doing it now, coupled with the fact that we already have some financial powers and we are getting considerably more.

If we have financial powers only over, for example, LBTT, if we get it slightly wrong, we could find a way to accommodate that change to ensure that it does not impact on the services that we can provide. However, once we move into income tax, non-domestic rates and a portion of VAT, with the greater number of powers that we have, the greater is the risk that we get it wrong. If we got it wrong at the forecast stage, particularly in predicting that we will get more than we actually do, we would have serious problems in the Scottish budget and difficulties in correcting those errors going forward. For that reason, the Fiscal Commission becomes even more important. That is why we should all back it today.

I want to pick up on the one key point of the debate. John Mason—a man I respect hugely, who has done a very good job as deputy convener of the Finance Committee—is simply wrong to say that the issue was tokenism. Jackie Baillie’s amendment reflected the second most important thing that the committee reviewed and considered. Issue number 1, far above the rest, was forecasting, but issue number 2 was having a responsibility for the long-term sustainability of the finances and ensuring that the fiscal rules were adhered to.

It is incorrect to suggest that that responsibility is tokenism. OECD principle 3.3 outlines the functions that fiscal commissions ought to have:

“economic and fiscal projections ... baseline projections ... analysis of the executive’s budget proposals”

and

“monitoring compliance with fiscal rules or official targets”.

Monitoring compliance is one of the key things that have to be done by any fiscal commission, anywhere on the planet.

The committee thought all the way through that the commission had to do that. In rejecting that today, I hope that Mr Swinney can at least keep the door open. As our powers increase and we become a stronger fiscal Parliament, it is critical that we get that right. We need somebody other than Government to keep control. That will not just be better for the country, but will help Mr Swinney or his successor to do their job even better. For that reason, I hope that we ultimately get that responsibility for the Scottish Fiscal Commission.

17:52  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15869, in the name of John Swinney, on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill. 17:20
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy (John Swinney) SNP
The Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill will ensure that there is an independent fiscal institution operating at the heart of Scotland’s devolved fiscal framewor...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
What resources will the Scottish Government have? The cabinet secretary is talking about the possibility of the Government rejecting a commission forecast. W...
John Swinney SNP
I intend to maintain the resources within Government to ensure that we can satisfy ourselves that we have a forecast from the Fiscal Commission that we belie...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I very much welcome the opportunity to participate in this stage 3 debate on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill. At the outset, I thank my colleagues on the...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
I will begin on a positive note. The bill that we now have—the bill that I hope will pass at decision time today—is considerably better than the bill that wa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I am happy to speak in today’s debate. I very much welcome the fact that we have a Fiscal Commission in place. We are now going to have a strengthened Fiscal...
Jackie Baillie Lab
John Mason has believed in the measure for more than two years. It was not about hunting for something to disagree with; it was about making sure that we hav...
John Mason SNP
We have that. As I have said, a major issue is who does the forecasting. Jackie Baillie’s amendment was on a peripheral issue. I find it hard to get excited ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Draw to a close, please.
John Mason SNP
Right. We have been very generous so far with the Fiscal Commission. It costs £850,000, which is more than the Irish or the Swedes get, and we should not thr...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
As members have explained, this has been a long and twisting road. I am afraid that I have not been able to follow every turn—I am not on the Finance Committ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We come to the closing speeches. I understand that this will be Gavin Brown’s last speech so, on behalf of the Presiding Officers, I thank him for his contri...
Gavin Brown Con
Presiding Officer, I did not realise until now that this would be my last speech. You obviously know something that I do not. The whip in this Parliament mus...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I have come late to the topic. I have not served on the Finance Committee, although I have watched some of its ambulations over the period. We have reached a...
John Swinney SNP
I begin with a comment that Malcolm Chisholm made. He was concerned about the Government maintaining its capacity to undertake the tax-forecasting function t...
Gavin Brown Con
Of course that responsibility falls to Parliament but, as we have heard time and time again, members of Parliament will be aided by the SFC’s analysis. As pa...
John Swinney SNP
That is a matter of opinion on which Mr Brown and I are going to have to disagree. There is plenty of information and analysis available that will enable Par...
John Swinney SNP
If Jamie McGrigor will forgive me, I am going to have to bring my remarks to a close. Mr Brown has not always been my strongest ally on what I have brought ...
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
That concludes the debate on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill. Before we move to the next item of business, I am minded at this stage to accept a motion ...