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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 March 2016

10 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill
Mason, John SNP Glasgow Shettleston Watch on SPTV

I am happy to speak in today’s debate. I very much welcome the fact that we have a Fiscal Commission in place. We are now going to have a strengthened Fiscal Commission that will, through the bill, be put on a statutory footing. As other members have said, we have spent a fair bit of time in the Finance Committee examining and discussing such commissions and how they work; we were also the lead committee for the bill.

Although Scotland aspires to be an independent country at some point, with all the extra powers and responsibilities that that would involve, we are clearly not at that point yet. Internationally, there are not that many examples of devolved administrations, or states in federal systems, that have their own independent fiscal institutions. Some of the states in the USA do, Ontario does, and Catalonia does, but not many others do. We have tended to look at smaller independent countries for models. Some of the committee visited Sweden and a couple of us went to Ireland.

Scotland has the opportunity to set an example and to lead the way for devolved Governments and Parliaments, with the commission. As we studied more international examples, and as we thought through how a commission would work, I became increasingly convinced that the normal international model of an independent commission commenting on or endorsing forecasts is the best model. That is the norm internationally; the UK model is an exception. In that respect, I agreed with the Scottish Government and disagreed with the majority of the committee. In fact, the commission’s members were not convinced by the OBR model, either. I must say that I have a great respect for all three commission members, and I hope that they will be willing to take on a role that is different to the one that they had expected. However, as part of the negotiations over the fiscal framework, I accept that Westminster was keen to have us adopt its OBR model and I accept that the Scottish Government agreed to that as part of the bargaining process. That was the main area of disagreement at committee.

Mention has already been made of one amendment today. I must say that there was a bit of tokenism going on: Labour, as the Opposition, in fighting off the Tories, was trying to show that there was something that it must oppose. It hunted through the bill, found a little thing and created an amendment on it.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15869, in the name of John Swinney, on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill. 17:20
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy (John Swinney) SNP
The Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill will ensure that there is an independent fiscal institution operating at the heart of Scotland’s devolved fiscal framewor...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
What resources will the Scottish Government have? The cabinet secretary is talking about the possibility of the Government rejecting a commission forecast. W...
John Swinney SNP
I intend to maintain the resources within Government to ensure that we can satisfy ourselves that we have a forecast from the Fiscal Commission that we belie...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I very much welcome the opportunity to participate in this stage 3 debate on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill. At the outset, I thank my colleagues on the...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
I will begin on a positive note. The bill that we now have—the bill that I hope will pass at decision time today—is considerably better than the bill that wa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I am happy to speak in today’s debate. I very much welcome the fact that we have a Fiscal Commission in place. We are now going to have a strengthened Fiscal...
Jackie Baillie Lab
John Mason has believed in the measure for more than two years. It was not about hunting for something to disagree with; it was about making sure that we hav...
John Mason SNP
We have that. As I have said, a major issue is who does the forecasting. Jackie Baillie’s amendment was on a peripheral issue. I find it hard to get excited ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Draw to a close, please.
John Mason SNP
Right. We have been very generous so far with the Fiscal Commission. It costs £850,000, which is more than the Irish or the Swedes get, and we should not thr...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
As members have explained, this has been a long and twisting road. I am afraid that I have not been able to follow every turn—I am not on the Finance Committ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We come to the closing speeches. I understand that this will be Gavin Brown’s last speech so, on behalf of the Presiding Officers, I thank him for his contri...
Gavin Brown Con
Presiding Officer, I did not realise until now that this would be my last speech. You obviously know something that I do not. The whip in this Parliament mus...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I have come late to the topic. I have not served on the Finance Committee, although I have watched some of its ambulations over the period. We have reached a...
John Swinney SNP
I begin with a comment that Malcolm Chisholm made. He was concerned about the Government maintaining its capacity to undertake the tax-forecasting function t...
Gavin Brown Con
Of course that responsibility falls to Parliament but, as we have heard time and time again, members of Parliament will be aided by the SFC’s analysis. As pa...
John Swinney SNP
That is a matter of opinion on which Mr Brown and I are going to have to disagree. There is plenty of information and analysis available that will enable Par...
John Swinney SNP
If Jamie McGrigor will forgive me, I am going to have to bring my remarks to a close. Mr Brown has not always been my strongest ally on what I have brought ...
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
That concludes the debate on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill. Before we move to the next item of business, I am minded at this stage to accept a motion ...