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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 March 2016

10 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill

I very much welcome the opportunity to participate in this stage 3 debate on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill. At the outset, I thank my colleagues on the Finance Committee, the clerks and all those who gave evidence, and I also acknowledge the role of the Tory chancellor, George Osborne, who apparently convinced the cabinet secretary to make the Fiscal Commission more robust.

It was in January 2015 that Scottish Labour set out our plans for a Scottish office for budget responsibility—a truly independent body with teeth that would ensure greater transparency and scrutiny of Scotland’s public finances. Its importance cannot be overstated given the substantial new taxation and welfare powers that are coming. No longer will we just be spending money that someone else has given us; we will now be responsible for raising some of it, too. As a result, being honest and open with the Scottish people about what the economic future holds and placing forecasting in the hands of experts free of political manipulation are absolutely the right things for us to do. Of course, that applies to all Governments, of whatever political colour.

Let us look at the context. During stage 1, I noted that, for the first time in a decade, the price of oil was below $30 a barrel. Gross domestic product figures have clearly been affected in a negative way. Growth in Scotland—onshore and offshore—is not good, and Scotland is certainly not performing as well as the rest of the UK.

Just yesterday, the “Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland” figures were published. I understand from James Kelly that they were published not once, not twice but three times because the figures that were provided by the Scottish Government were incorrect. I am sure that the cabinet secretary regrets that, but he will also acknowledge that that does not fill people with confidence. GERS, which is the Scottish Government’s balance sheet, tells us that there is a staggering £15 billion gap in our public finances. That is more than the funding for the entirety of the national health service.

When Labour called for a Scottish office for budget responsibility, the existing Fiscal Commission had a limited role—the fact that it had no forecasting responsibility and that its members were appointed by the cabinet secretary, serving as advisers at the same time as providing scrutiny, did not provide reassurance about the independence of the body. I am pleased that that has changed. The Fiscal Commission is now to be on a statutory footing and responsible for the official forecast and for assessing expenditure and income across the Scottish Government’s responsibilities, with better governance arrangements than we had before.

I confess that I am disappointed that the cabinet secretary has rejected my amendment on scrutiny of fiscal rules and the sustainability of public finances. I regret that he and his party have turned their face against ensuring that the Fiscal Commission is truly robust. Having those responsibilities is the normal stuff of fiscal institutions across the world but, hey, it is not to be that way in Scotland—yet it is, or was, something that SNP members of the Finance Committee agreed with. I was delighted to see Kenny Gibson and Mark McDonald make their way to the chamber for a couple of seconds to vote against my amendment, which concerned something that they believed in for more than two years but, of course, they have left again. I do not know why that is. Maybe it is to hide their embarrassment.

The Finance Committee produced a much-welcomed report on the need for a robust fiscal institution. That was followed by an equally thoughtful and robust stage 1 report. In both reports, only one member dissented from the idea that the Fiscal Commission should produce the official forecasts. As I said earlier, that was John Mason. I respect his consistency on that issue, even if I disagree with him. However, I regret his subsequent lack of consistency on other areas of the committee’s thinking.

What genuinely disappoints me is that other members and the convener changed their minds at the 11th hour, just before stage 2. Lo and behold, days later—before the fiscal framework was announced—they changed their minds again: official forecasting was now to be the responsibility of the Fiscal Commission. When it comes to the Fiscal Commission scrutinising fiscal rules or considering fiscal sustainability, they all agreed, but now they have changed their minds. The cabinet secretary had clearly marched his SNP members up to the top of the hill and promptly abandoned them there.

The cabinet secretary says that he did not influence those members and that he did not tell them about the fiscal framework negotiations. I ask people to think about it. Those members of the committee held a strongly expressed view consistently for two years and then, remarkably, they changed their minds at the 11th hour. I do not know what happened. It is a matter for individual members to determine how they protect their own credibility as politicians, but I care about the credibility of the committee. The flip-flopping was embarrassing. It did no credit to the committee or the Parliament, and I hope that we can all reflect on that.

Scotland is on the verge of gaining substantial new powers. With those new powers come new responsibilities. We need openness and transparency in the stewardship of the nation’s finances, and the Scottish Fiscal Commission will be a welcome addition to that process.

We support the bill at stage 3.

17:34  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15869, in the name of John Swinney, on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill. 17:20
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy (John Swinney) SNP
The Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill will ensure that there is an independent fiscal institution operating at the heart of Scotland’s devolved fiscal framewor...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
What resources will the Scottish Government have? The cabinet secretary is talking about the possibility of the Government rejecting a commission forecast. W...
John Swinney SNP
I intend to maintain the resources within Government to ensure that we can satisfy ourselves that we have a forecast from the Fiscal Commission that we belie...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I very much welcome the opportunity to participate in this stage 3 debate on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill. At the outset, I thank my colleagues on the...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
I will begin on a positive note. The bill that we now have—the bill that I hope will pass at decision time today—is considerably better than the bill that wa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I am happy to speak in today’s debate. I very much welcome the fact that we have a Fiscal Commission in place. We are now going to have a strengthened Fiscal...
Jackie Baillie Lab
John Mason has believed in the measure for more than two years. It was not about hunting for something to disagree with; it was about making sure that we hav...
John Mason SNP
We have that. As I have said, a major issue is who does the forecasting. Jackie Baillie’s amendment was on a peripheral issue. I find it hard to get excited ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Draw to a close, please.
John Mason SNP
Right. We have been very generous so far with the Fiscal Commission. It costs £850,000, which is more than the Irish or the Swedes get, and we should not thr...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
As members have explained, this has been a long and twisting road. I am afraid that I have not been able to follow every turn—I am not on the Finance Committ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We come to the closing speeches. I understand that this will be Gavin Brown’s last speech so, on behalf of the Presiding Officers, I thank him for his contri...
Gavin Brown Con
Presiding Officer, I did not realise until now that this would be my last speech. You obviously know something that I do not. The whip in this Parliament mus...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I have come late to the topic. I have not served on the Finance Committee, although I have watched some of its ambulations over the period. We have reached a...
John Swinney SNP
I begin with a comment that Malcolm Chisholm made. He was concerned about the Government maintaining its capacity to undertake the tax-forecasting function t...
Gavin Brown Con
Of course that responsibility falls to Parliament but, as we have heard time and time again, members of Parliament will be aided by the SFC’s analysis. As pa...
John Swinney SNP
That is a matter of opinion on which Mr Brown and I are going to have to disagree. There is plenty of information and analysis available that will enable Par...
John Swinney SNP
If Jamie McGrigor will forgive me, I am going to have to bring my remarks to a close. Mr Brown has not always been my strongest ally on what I have brought ...
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
That concludes the debate on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill. Before we move to the next item of business, I am minded at this stage to accept a motion ...