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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 March 2016

10 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Lobbying (Scotland) Bill

Scottish Labour supports the principle of a lobbying bill and the need for the introduction of legislation in this area. Despite voting for it at decision time tonight, we believe that the bill should have been amended further to ensure that it is a strong and effective piece of legislation.

The Lobbying (Scotland) Bill in front of us is a dilution of my colleague Neil Findlay’s original proposal for a lobbying bill. As we have heard, there are two key areas where we believe that the bill falls short: by excluding emails and by excluding all civil servants except permanent secretaries. That is a mistake, and it renders the bill almost meaningless. The passing of the bill will lead to a situation where only one civil servant for each Scottish Government department, the permanent secretary, will be captured by the bill. That is an obvious failing.

At stage 2, when the bill was in committee, Scottish Labour lodged 16 amendments, but each and every one of them was rejected—the SNP used its majority on the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee to reject all the alternatives that were proposed by Scottish Labour.

The Scottish Labour amendments in the names of my colleagues Neil Findlay and Patricia Ferguson aimed to strengthen the bill in the key areas of accountability, transparency and openness. The result of every Scottish Labour amendment being rejected at stage 2 is a bill that is not as strong or effective as we would have liked it to be. Scottish Labour would have liked to strengthen the bill significantly to ensure that the legislation was as strong and effective as possible.

As well as not addressing the concerns raised by members of the Parliament, the Scottish Government has not considered the views of civic Scotland on the bill either. Organisation after organisation and expert after expert have criticised the bill for not being as strong as it could be, yet the SNP has taken little action to strengthen it to make it a truly effective and workable piece of legislation. For example, Unlock Democracy described the bill’s definition of lobbying as

“a gift to those who might wish to keep their activity out of the public gaze”.

Presiding Officer,

“Research has shown that the public overwhelmingly want greater transparency in Holyrood, but they're still waiting for MSPs to deliver, rather than give in to the lobbying industry. It would be farcical and ironic if the bill to regulate lobbying were to be neutered because MSPs have been lobbied by the lobbying industry.”

Those are not my words but those of Robert Barrington, executive director of Transparency International UK. Members across this chamber should reflect on that statement.

In 1999 when the Scottish Parliament was established, it had the explicit founding values of accountability, transparency and openness. At a time when public confidence in politicians is failing, we should be aiming more than ever to inspire faith among the people of Scotland in their elected representatives. We in Scottish Labour passionately believe in strengthening the Lobbying (Scotland) Bill to make it a strong and effective piece of legislation.

We understand the need for a lobbying bill; we supported the proposal for the introduction of a lobbying bill. We want the bill to be strong on lobbying, transparency and accountability.

The Government talks frequently about being a listening Government and being consensual. Speakers in this afternoon’s debate have raised concerns about the legislation and the need to strengthen it. This was a perfect opportunity for the SNP Government to do exactly that; it is just a pity that it decided not to listen.

At points today, I have wondered whether we have been discussing two different bills. The bill that I am looking at is not the bill that the SNP is talking about. A lobbying bill is needed, so we will support the passing of the Lobbying (Scotland) Bill, but the Scottish Government must listen to the concerns of parliamentarians, independent organisations and experts alike, and take action to ensure that the bill meets the aspirations of this Parliament in providing accountability, openness and transparency through strong and effective lobbying legislation.

16:27  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15870, in the name of Joe FitzPatrick, on the Lobbying (Scotland) Bill. 15:48
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Joe FitzPatrick) SNP
In opening this debate, I would like to thank all members for their contributions to the development of the Lobbying (Scotland) Bill, which I hope the Parlia...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
On a scale of one to 10, at which level of transparency does the minister believe the bill sits in comparison with what happens in other jurisdictions?
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
I think that the bill sits in absolutely the correct place, balancing transparency and proportionality for Scottish circumstances, going back to Helen Eadie’...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
I understand what the minister is saying, and none of us would disagree with where he is trying to get to. However, the amendment that was agreed to today me...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
We have tried to strike a balance that reflects the work of a constituency member. Certainly, if I am approached by a business that operates in my constituen...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I do not think that the minister believed a word of that. This is not one of the Parliament’s finest days. It is a day of mixed feelings for me. In one sens...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
Prior to the bill’s introduction, ministers have recorded their meetings, which was always a means of having transparency. We are moving towards an election...
Neil Findlay Lab
The minister is going way off at a tangent. I am up for openness and transparency—the more of it that we have, the better.
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
Will the member answer my question?
Neil Findlay Lab
We will come to some of those issues in a moment. The public want to know and have a right to know what is being done in their name. They should know whethe...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I realise that the member did not attend all the committee’s evidence sessions. If he had, he would have heard representatives of the major lobbying organisa...
Neil Findlay Lab
Excellent, but I bet that none of them put forward the nonsensical amendments that we have seen today. We are hearing about FOI exemptions being used to pre...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
For the record, I clarify that it was the late Helen Eadie who requested that the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee pursue an inquiry.
Neil Findlay Lab
The Government also asked the current convener to host that inquiry, as the minister confirmed in the letter that he sent to me. The bill was watered down t...
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con) Con
I will begin by addressing Mr Findlay’s last point—the IOD and other groups are covered by the bill because they are big organisations. It was definitely the...
Neil Findlay Lab
From the research that I have seen, my understanding is that the IOD is not a big enough organisation to be covered, because it does not have enough employees.
Cameron Buchanan Con
It might not have enough employees, but it has members, and that is the same sort of thing. I think that we can agree that it is important to have a democra...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We move to the open debate. 16:09
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Several references to Helen Eadie have already been made in this debate, and I think that it is a mark of the affection in which she is held that only today ...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
I rise to speak in the debate with a feeling of dismay about the bill that we are passing today. I say that as someone who was not initially a supporter of t...
Cameron Buchanan Con
The level of transparency in our Government and its openness to the public are both crucial aspects of a healthy democracy, which makes it so important that ...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Scottish Labour supports the principle of a lobbying bill and the need for the introduction of legislation in this area. Despite voting for it at decision ti...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
I welcome the fact that members have subjected the Lobbying (Scotland) Bill to close scrutiny throughout its parliamentary passage, and today has been no dif...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
That concludes the debate on the Lobbying (Scotland) Bill.