Committee
Health and Sport Committee 08 March 2016
08 Mar 2016 · S4 · Health and Sport Committee
Item of business
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Amendments 1003 to 1007 place various duties and powers on cremation authorities and funeral directors in relation to how they handle ashes. Amendment 1003 specifies that a cremation authority must, before carrying out a cremation, take reasonable steps to ascertain what an applicant would like to be done with the ashes following the cremation. The amendment provides three options: that the ashes will be collected by the applicant; that the ashes will be collected by a funeral director on behalf of the applicant; or that the ashes will be disposed of by the cremation authority on behalf of the applicant. Those options require the cremation authority to do something with the ashes on behalf of the applicant. The applicant may choose to collect the ashes from the crematorium themselves or arrange for the funeral director to collect them. The applicant may also agree with the cremation authority that the authority will dispose of the ashes at the crematorium. Amendment 1004 places a cremation authority under a duty to follow the applicant’s stated wishes about what should be done with the ashes. Amendment 1005 sets out the procedure to be followed by a cremation authority where an applicant or funeral director does not collect ashes as agreed. In such a case, the cremation authority must take reasonable steps to ascertain the wishes of the applicant again. If the applicant responds and gives further instructions, the cremation authority is required to comply with those wishes. If the applicant does not make known his or her wishes, the cremation authority may dispose of the ashes in a manner prescribed by regulations. Amendment 1006 sets out the procedure to be followed by a funeral director where the funeral director has collected ashes from a crematorium on behalf of an applicant and the applicant has not in turn collected the ashes from the funeral director. In that instance, a funeral director is required to take further steps to ascertain the wishes of the applicant. If the applicant gives further instructions, the funeral director is obliged to comply with those wishes. Where the applicant does not provide any further instructions, the funeral director may return the ashes to the crematorium where the cremation was carried out. 09:45 Amendment 1007 sets out the procedure to be followed by a cremation authority where a funeral director returns ashes to the crematorium under the new section inserted by amendment 1006. In such an instance, the cremation authority must take reasonable steps to ascertain the applicant’s wishes with regard to how the ashes should be handled. The applicant can either arrange to collect the ashes or ask the cremation authority to dispose of the ashes for them in a way set out in regulations, and the cremation authority must comply with any such instructions. Where the applicant does not respond or give further instructions, the cremation authority may dispose of the ashes in a manner prescribed in regulations. This group of amendments provides a clear process for handling ashes. At each stage, the applicant will be made aware of his or her choices and what will happen if the ashes are not collected as arranged. Moreover, at each stage, the applicant is given an opportunity to specify what he or she wants to happen to the ashes. Although cremation authorities and funeral directors are under a duty to attempt to contact the applicant at various points, they have a power rather than a duty to dispose of ashes where the applicant does not provide further instructions. That will provide cremation authorities and funeral directors with discretion about when they choose to dispose of ashes and when they choose to retain them. Amendment 1008 gives ministers a power to make regulations on the handling of ashes. Among other matters, regulations may make provision for time periods for collecting and retaining ashes and for notices that must be given to applicants about the processes. Finally, amendment 1002, which is actually a very small amendment, removes section 37(1)(c) to ensure that regulations made under section 37 do not include provisions on the disposal of ashes by cremation authorities. Such provisions are now in the bill and are supplemented by regulations under the new section inserted by amendment 1008. I move amendment 1002.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Duncan McNeil)
Lab
Good morning and welcome to the 13th meeting in 2016 of the Health and Sport Committee. I ask everyone in the room to switch off their mobile phones as they ...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 1001, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendment 1044. I call the minister to move amendment 1001 and to speak to both amendments in th...
The Minister for Public Health (Maureen Watt)
SNP
Amendment 1001 provides greater clarity and certainty about what constitutes a cremation. The effect of the amendment is that cremation is the burning of hum...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
I would like to confirm the meaning. In the original version of the bill, “cremation” means: “the reduction to ashes of human remains ... and the applicatio...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
I agree with Malcolm Chisholm. In evidence, the committee heard that some religious groups do not agree with cremulation but do agree with cremation. The min...
The Convener
Lab
No other member wishes to speak. I therefore call the minister to wind up.
Maureen Watt
SNP
It is precisely because in some cases some religions, particularly Hinduism, do not want the cremulation process to take place that we brought forward the wo...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 1002, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 1003 to 1008.
Maureen Watt
SNP
Amendments 1003 to 1007 place various duties and powers on cremation authorities and funeral directors in relation to how they handle ashes. Amendment 1003...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I have a question for the minister. At the moment, many funeral directors can be left with ashes for quite a long time. Will regulations put in place a time ...
Maureen Watt
SNP
Well—
The Convener
Lab
I will bring in Malcolm Chisholm next. You will have an opportunity to respond when you wind up, minister.
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
I welcome the amount of detail that is being put in the bill. Originally, that detail was to be set out in regulations. I know that we sometimes have debates...
Maureen Watt
SNP
I thank Malcolm Chisholm for his comments. We have listened to the committees involved in scrutinising the bill and what they have said in their stage 1 repo...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 1047, in the name of Malcolm Chisholm, is grouped with amendment 1048.
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
I am sure that everyone who has followed the passage of the bill and indeed the events that preceded it will realise the centrality of the ashes issue. The...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP)
SNP
Will the minister clarify whether an inspector of crematoriums would carry out an inquiry or investigation if no ashes were recovered to ascertain why that w...
Maureen Watt
SNP
Amendment 1047 seeks to expand the enabling power in the bill that would allow ministers to make regulations about applications for cremation. The bill alrea...
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
I thank the minister for those words. In a sense, I lodged my amendments to highlight the issues in question. The fact that, according to the minister, the s...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 1009, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 1010 to 1020, 1030, 1045 and 1046.
Maureen Watt
SNP
Amendments 1009 to 1016 are minor amendments, which seek to remove any reference to “still-birth” or “still-born child” from section 47 of the bill. The remo...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 1021, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 1022 to 1026.
Maureen Watt
SNP
The overall effect of amendments 1022 to 1024 is to amend section 48 so as to require a person who makes a decision about the disposal of a deceased person’s...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 1027, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 1028, 1029, 1031 to 1036, 1049, 1037, 1050 and 1038 to 1043. I point out that if amen...
Maureen Watt
SNP
The overall effect of this group of amendments is to strengthen the process that a health authority must follow when a woman experiences a pregnancy loss bef...
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
First, I think that the minister has dealt with the matter of my amendment 1050 in her amendment 128, which will be considered tomorrow. I assume that amendm...
Nanette Milne
Con
When I came to the meeting, I could not really distinguish between the two amendments. However, having listened to what has been said by the minister and by ...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
I was not going to comment on which amendment I prefer—the minister’s amendment 1036 or Malcolm Chisholm’s amendment 1049—although I would support the Govern...
Maureen Watt
SNP
We need to remember that amendment 1036 makes it clear that section 54 will apply where the provision in section 50(1) “applies in relation to a woman” and...
The Convener
Lab
I remind members that if amendment 1036 is agreed to, I cannot call amendment 1049. The question is, that amendment 1036 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Membe...