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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 08 March 2016

08 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Higher Education Governance (Scotland) Bill

I thank members for today’s stage 3 debate and record my thanks to the Education and Culture Committee. Unlike Mary Scanlon, I will not embarrass its convener, Stewart Maxwell. I also pay tribute to all our stakeholders, including the NUS, the UCU and Universities Scotland.

Mark Griffin and Iain Gray said that the bill has not been without its problems; there have, of course, been a few twists and turns and a few bumps on the road on the journey that we have taken, but that means that the final destination is to be appreciated all the more. I thank Iain Gray for his opening remarks. I say to Mark Griffin that had he lodged at stage 2 some of the amendments that he lodged at stage 3, they could have been developed, so he might want to reflect on that.

I was not surprised to hear that Liz Smith, Baroness Goldie and Mary Scanlon will oppose the bill to the bitter end—it is their democratic right to do so. They have been very active participants in the debate on the bill and have pursued their views with tenacity. The reality is that I could have turned water into wine and would still have failed to persuade some Conservative members of the merits of the bill, but I had hoped for some acknowledgement of how far we have travelled through inclusion in the bill of measures that address the widest possible range of views from people who have interests.

In its briefing, NUS Scotland said that although it remains unconvinced of the need for any attempt to shortlist candidates, it recognises that the proposed model seeks to find a compromise among stakeholders, and it has been very supportive of the Scottish Government’s attempts to find a compromise. I flag that up to John Pentland in particular, in order to make the point that we have tried very hard to achieve a level of consensus, particularly in advance of the final stages of the bill. From the word go, extensive efforts were made to communicate and to engage with everyone who has an interest.

There have been a lot of very valuable and informed contributions throughout the course of this afternoon. Both Cara Hilton and Alison Johnstone made very powerful contributions acknowledging that universities have to be at the forefront of tackling inequality both within and outwith those institutions. However, I have to say to Cara Hilton in particular that if a matter is outwith the legal competence of the Scottish Parliament, there is indeed a limit to those often-debated ministerial powers.

I want to emphasise how much support the bill actually has. We have to remember that there is a wider university community beyond principals and chairs of court, important though their opinions are. Many HEI staff and students and other stakeholders, including MSPs, signalled their appetite for change and for the modernisation of governance structures. I am grateful to them all for their forbearance and for their solidarity in support for the bill throughout its passage. We have, in the closing debate, touched on the statutory and historical role of rector and how it has been protected. I want to pay tribute to Catherine Stihler. Although we have not always agreed on every detail, she has made a very worthy contribution to the debate and has sought to make her contributions constructively and meaningfully.

It is important to look to the future, although Liam McArthur seemed to be determined in his speech to revisit past debates. However, I am going to resist the temptation to point out some of his efforts to introduce “blunt” legislation, some of which I consider to have been rather illiberal, at times. It is important that we now set aside our differences of opinion and collaborate to make the bill’s provisions work in the long-term interests of our institutions and the HE sector. Universities and other HE institutions play a vital role in the well-being of our society and economy, and I have made it clear throughout the bill’s progress that their autonomy is something that we all value and want to maintain.

This Government continues to make a substantial public investment in higher education because our institutions are high-quality organisations that contribute hugely to our ambitions to be a fairer Scotland with a more prosperous economy. However, we know that time stands still for no one. Our institutions are good, but now is the time to refine governance arrangements to maintain the excellence for which they are renowned. Any institution that exists as part of a nation’s fabric must move with the times and ensure that it remains capable of contributing to how the nation wishes to develop its culture and values. In 21st century Scotland, there is an appetite for greater participation in the democratic processes that affect our lives and futures, and for people who have a stake in the future of their communities to have a say. The bill ensures that that will happen in relation to the HE sector.

I encourage our higher education institutions to focus on the positives that the bill will introduce. Fundamentally, the bill is about modernisation—focused, discrete and targeted modernisation that will help to create stronger unity of purpose and a sense of community on campuses. The bill seeks to strengthen the wellbeing of our universities by ensuring that more responsibility for governance, success and excellence is taken by more of those who have a direct interest in those outcomes. In short, the bill seeks to ensure that all voices on campus are heard.

For anyone who is still reluctant to embrace the changes that the bill introduces, I will finish with a quotation from Socrates that I hope everyone will heed:

“The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new.”

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item is a debate on motion S4M-15838, in the name of Angela Constance, on the Higher Education Governance (Scotland) Bill. I call the cabinet secr...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Angela Constance) SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I wish to advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Higher Edu...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
The cabinet secretary advocates a raison d’être for her bill, particularly in relation to what she considers to be the role of the chair. Is she aware of the...
Angela Constance SNP
Miss Goldie has raised that issue before at previous debates in Parliament, and that is a point on which I differ from her. I think that a higher education i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Iain Gray. We are quite tight for time, so Mr Gray has seven minutes. 18:29
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
In all the different stages of the bill, it is important that we recognise that, whatever our views on the merits or demerits of the bill, it is good that we...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It will be no surprise that we do not support the bill. Not only do we continue to believe that there is absolutely no need for it, given the Scottish Govern...
Annabel Goldie Con
On the issue of the model of governance, as proposed by the bill, I have, in vain, asked the Scottish Government to give me an example of where that model ca...
Liz Smith Con
I am afraid that I cannot help Annabel Goldie, because we have not had an answer to that question. It remains in the mists of time. I really do not understan...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
For a relatively modest piece of proposed legislation, the Higher Education Governance (Scotland) Bill has generated considerable comment. Members of the Edu...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) Lab
As we have heard, the passage of the bill has not been a great advert for the Scottish Government’s competence and grasp of educational matters, but then aga...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Our university sector is genuinely world class, but that does not mean that our universities cannot be improved. Adapting to changing needs, expectations and...
Stewart Maxwell SNP
Will the member give way?
Liam McArthur LD
I do not really have time, I am afraid. All the evidence shows that the best-performing universities worldwide are those that exercise the greatest level of...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
As I said in speaking to my amendments at stage 3, practically every single part of the bill has caused storm and fury. During stage 1, we discussed potentia...
Liz Smith Con
Will the member take an intervention?
George Adam SNP
Unfortunately, I have only about 10 seconds left. I believe in the bill; it is a way forward for our higher education institutions. I want to work with them...
Cara Hilton (Dunfermline) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to speak in this evening’s stage 3 debate on the Higher Education Governance (Scotland) Bill. The bill is by no means perfect, and it would hav...
Liz Smith Con
Given what the member has just said, can she tell me why it took two hours and two minutes for Labour to make its first contribution this afternoon?
Cara Hilton Lab
I confess that I am a wee bit confused by that intervention so I will pass. The bill will give staff, students and trade unions a real voice and a real say ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We move to the closing speeches. 19:00
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
It has been quite a long day. When the cabinet secretary mentioned Thomas Carlyle, I thought that I would look up one or two quotes on my iPad. He said: “th...
Angela Constance SNP
Will Mrs Scanlon give way?
Mary Scanlon Con
Of course.
Angela Constance SNP
I just wondered whether she had a quote about cheerful women.
Mary Scanlon Con
The cabinet secretary is very knowledgeable about the time that Thomas Carlyle was writing, so she will know that we can assume that what he said applied to ...
Stewart Maxwell SNP
Go on.
Mary Scanlon Con
I would like to, but I just cannot. As we normally do on these occasions, I thank the clerks of the Education and Culture Committee and, in particular, I th...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As Iain Gray set out at the beginning of the debate, Labour supports the general principles of the bill. The bill has the laudable aims of ensuring that the ...
Angela Constance SNP
I thank members for today’s stage 3 debate and record my thanks to the Education and Culture Committee. Unlike Mary Scanlon, I will not embarrass its convene...