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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 08 March 2016

08 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Higher Education Governance (Scotland) Bill
Scanlon, Mary Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I would like to, but I just cannot.

As we normally do on these occasions, I thank the clerks of the Education and Culture Committee and, in particular, I thank the convener, Stewart Maxwell. It was not easy to gain consensus across the committee on the bill. It was fairly complex and difficult to understand; there was very little information, and clarity was way out there on the horizon somewhere. Stewart Maxwell did as well as any convener could in bringing it together at stage 1.

Since 1999, the Parliament has passed significant legislation on issues such as mental health and smoking in public places. Across the political divide, we have often disagreed on the policy approach to addressing problems through legislation, but this is the first time since 1999 that I have found legislation looking for a problem. The cabinet secretary said earlier that she was

“surprised at the level of opposition to the bill from some”.

I have to correct her and say that it was not just some universities; it was every single higher education institution in the whole of Scotland. It is also incredible that the Government’s justification for the bill is that it consulted one man—Professor von Prondzynski. He certainly has a lot to answer for.

As others have said, the code of governance is to be reviewed this year. There is no doubt that progress has been made. Universities Scotland has said that the code has already delivered nearly 400 positive changes, with 72 per cent of universities having two or more student governors and 94 per cent having two or more staff governors. In August this year, we will have 50:50 gender balance for chair positions in Scottish universities, when another woman takes up a place. The 50:50 is happening.

I hope that in the future, when politics students look at this legislation, they do not use the bill as a shining example of what we do. The fact is that, on the face of the bill at stage 2, there was a duty on the universities to advertise on the internet. Thankfully, it has been removed today, but I am quite embarrassed that someone came up with the idea of telling our world-class universities that they have to advertise on the internet. Also on the face of the bill, in primary legislation—it is all there in nice, bright purple—the universities are told to tell people where to get their application forms. It is a little bit embarrassing.

Presiding Officer, I see that you are indicating that I should wind up—I have probably done enough winding up. In concluding, I thank my colleague Liz Smith, who has worked extensively across the sector, consulting and putting forward points of concern for higher education in Scotland.

19:05  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item is a debate on motion S4M-15838, in the name of Angela Constance, on the Higher Education Governance (Scotland) Bill. I call the cabinet secr...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Angela Constance) SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I wish to advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Higher Edu...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
The cabinet secretary advocates a raison d’être for her bill, particularly in relation to what she considers to be the role of the chair. Is she aware of the...
Angela Constance SNP
Miss Goldie has raised that issue before at previous debates in Parliament, and that is a point on which I differ from her. I think that a higher education i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Iain Gray. We are quite tight for time, so Mr Gray has seven minutes. 18:29
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
In all the different stages of the bill, it is important that we recognise that, whatever our views on the merits or demerits of the bill, it is good that we...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It will be no surprise that we do not support the bill. Not only do we continue to believe that there is absolutely no need for it, given the Scottish Govern...
Annabel Goldie Con
On the issue of the model of governance, as proposed by the bill, I have, in vain, asked the Scottish Government to give me an example of where that model ca...
Liz Smith Con
I am afraid that I cannot help Annabel Goldie, because we have not had an answer to that question. It remains in the mists of time. I really do not understan...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
For a relatively modest piece of proposed legislation, the Higher Education Governance (Scotland) Bill has generated considerable comment. Members of the Edu...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) Lab
As we have heard, the passage of the bill has not been a great advert for the Scottish Government’s competence and grasp of educational matters, but then aga...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Our university sector is genuinely world class, but that does not mean that our universities cannot be improved. Adapting to changing needs, expectations and...
Stewart Maxwell SNP
Will the member give way?
Liam McArthur LD
I do not really have time, I am afraid. All the evidence shows that the best-performing universities worldwide are those that exercise the greatest level of...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
As I said in speaking to my amendments at stage 3, practically every single part of the bill has caused storm and fury. During stage 1, we discussed potentia...
Liz Smith Con
Will the member take an intervention?
George Adam SNP
Unfortunately, I have only about 10 seconds left. I believe in the bill; it is a way forward for our higher education institutions. I want to work with them...
Cara Hilton (Dunfermline) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to speak in this evening’s stage 3 debate on the Higher Education Governance (Scotland) Bill. The bill is by no means perfect, and it would hav...
Liz Smith Con
Given what the member has just said, can she tell me why it took two hours and two minutes for Labour to make its first contribution this afternoon?
Cara Hilton Lab
I confess that I am a wee bit confused by that intervention so I will pass. The bill will give staff, students and trade unions a real voice and a real say ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We move to the closing speeches. 19:00
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
It has been quite a long day. When the cabinet secretary mentioned Thomas Carlyle, I thought that I would look up one or two quotes on my iPad. He said: “th...
Angela Constance SNP
Will Mrs Scanlon give way?
Mary Scanlon Con
Of course.
Angela Constance SNP
I just wondered whether she had a quote about cheerful women.
Mary Scanlon Con
The cabinet secretary is very knowledgeable about the time that Thomas Carlyle was writing, so she will know that we can assume that what he said applied to ...
Stewart Maxwell SNP
Go on.
Mary Scanlon Con
I would like to, but I just cannot. As we normally do on these occasions, I thank the clerks of the Education and Culture Committee and, in particular, I th...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As Iain Gray set out at the beginning of the debate, Labour supports the general principles of the bill. The bill has the laudable aims of ensuring that the ...
Angela Constance SNP
I thank members for today’s stage 3 debate and record my thanks to the Education and Culture Committee. Unlike Mary Scanlon, I will not embarrass its convene...