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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 February 2016

04 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Carers (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Milne, Nanette Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I cannot stress enough the importance of carers being fully involved in the hospital discharge planning of the person for whom they care to ensure that appropriate support arrangements are in place before that person is discharged from hospital.

Following acceptance of my stage 2 amendment by the Health and Sport Committee, the minister confirmed his support for involving carers and asked to work with me to ensure that the amendment could be further developed, with the aim of having these stage 3 amendments in my name. I met the minister on three occasions to discuss the amendments and I also received his written comments. It is of course very important to ensure that there are no delays in hospital discharge as a result of amendments or for any other reason.

Amendment 39 removes section 25(4A) so that my stage 2 amendment is removed completely. However, the provision will now be in a new section on its own, which will give it more prominence, making it easier for members and others to see what it does, rather than having a number of amendments to a section, which would not be easy to follow.

Amendment 40 inserts a new section after section 25. The purpose, as set out in subsection (1), is for each health board to ensure that, before a cared-for person is discharged from hospital, it involves any carer of that person in the discharge planning. The duty is conferred on the health board; in practice, that duty will be implemented within the wider context of integration, in partnership with the local integration joint board and the local council.

Subsection (2) of the new section makes it clear that

“A health board fulfils the duty in subsection (1)”

by taking appropriate steps to

“inform the carer ... of the intention to discharge the cared-for person”

and inviting the carer

“to give views about the discharge”.

The carer is to be informed of the intention to discharge the cared-for person

“as soon as reasonably practicable”.

I welcome the minister’s assurance that further detail on that will be covered in guidance, which I hope that he will confirm today. Paragraph (b) of subsection (2) requires a health board to take account

"so far as it is reasonable and practicable to do so, of any views given by the carer in making decisions relating to the discharge of the cared-for person."

Subsection (3) qualifies the application of the section in that the health board must be able to identify the carer "without delay" and the cared-for person must be likely to require care following discharge. I hope that that will lead to dialogue with carers as soon as possible during the patient’s journey in hospital and avoid the current experience of many carers, who do not receive the information that they need on admission, diagnosis or discharge.

Subsection (4) defines “health board” and includes within the definition the State Hospitals Board for Scotland. Subsection (5) defines “hospitals” to mean

“a health service hospital”,

or,

“where a person receives accommodation or services in a hospital other than a health service hospital … such a hospital.”

Amendment 45 inserts a provision into section 36, on interpretation, to ensure that the interpretation of “health board” in this new section on carers’ involvement in hospital discharge of cared-for persons includes the State Hospitals Board for Scotland.

I move amendment 39.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Carers (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with the amendments, members should have the bill as amended at st...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Unusually, I am not sure whether your microphone is on. I am having considerable difficulty hearing you, which might ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Thank you, Mr Carlaw. I will take the muffler off my microphone; apparently I am usually very loud. I will try to speak more into the microphone, and perhaps...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 1 is on the meaning of “young carer”. Amendment 21, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is the only amendment in the group.
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I would never have dreamed of putting a muffler on your microphone. Amendment 21 was lodged because of concerns from the Scott...
The Minister for Sport, Health Improvement and Mental Health (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
The definition of young carer that is presently on the face of the bill aligns with the named person service provisions as set out in the Children and Young ...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Given the reassurances that regulations will cover the point that amendment 21 would deal with, I would like to withdraw it. Amendment 21, by agreement, wit...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 2 is on the exercise of functions and taking account of equalities matters. Amendment 1, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is grouped with amendments 3, 5, 7...
Rhoda Grant Lab
These amendments arose from evidence about the needs of carers from different ethnic backgrounds. The way in which support is provided to carers has sometime...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I thank Ms Grant for lodging the amendments. As she said, we worked together between stages 2 and 3 to ensure that the amendments reinforce the importance of...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I thank the minister for those comments. These amendments are very important. Amendment 1 agreed to.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 3 is on the preparation of adult carer support plans and young carer statements in relation to the delegation of functions. Amendment 22, in the name o...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Amendments 22 and 25 make it possible for a local authority to allow a voluntary organisation or indeed any other organisation to complete the adult carer su...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I fully support the intention behind the amendments. I see great merit in carer centres and other third sector organisations being involved in the preparatio...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I have listened carefully to what the minister has said. Given his reassurance that section 25 covers the matter, I seek leave to withdraw amendment 22. Ame...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
The next group of amendments concerns timescales for the preparation of adult carer support plans and young carer statements. Amendment 2, in the name of the...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Amendments 2 and 6 are designed to provide absolute clarity about our intentions: they replace “may” with “must” in sections 6A and 11A, so that those sectio...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I welcome the Government’s amendments, which strengthen the wording in the bill. My amendments 23 and 26 make it clear that the Scottish Government can set t...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I thank Rhoda Grant for her question, which is a fair one. I re-emphasise the point that I made in my opening remarks, that, since the bill was first present...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 5 is on information about future arrangements, including bereavement support. Amendment 4, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is grouped with amendments 24, 8...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Amendments 4 and 8 seek to allow for the planning statement to contain information on the future care arrangements for a cared-for person. We will all have c...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I speak in support of amendments 14, 24 and 27. When a carer loses a loved one or someone to whom they have become emotionally attached through caring for th...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
I want to highlight the importance of carers centres in providing continued support to carers who have suffered bereavement. Many of those centres, including...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I thank Ms Grant for lodging these amendments. I recognise that future care planning is just as important as emergency care planning to a carer’s health and ...
Johann Lamont Lab
Does the minister recognise that there is a continuum for a person who has cared for, cares for and then loses someone? Because they are living with the cons...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I absolutely agree with the point that Johann Lamont has made. I suppose that my point is that we are not just expressing sentiments, but are making the law....
Rhoda Grant Lab
I am listening carefully to what the minister is saying. Does he think that it would be appropriate to put in place guidance for local authorities to ensure ...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Again, I am quite happy to reflect on that suggestion. It is essential that we have good guidance that covers all eventualities. I have clearly made the poin...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I listened carefully to what the minister said about amendments 24 and 27, as I know that we are all concerned about the support that carers get when they fa...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 6 is on local eligibility criteria: role of the Scottish ministers. Amendment 28, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is grouped with amendments 29 to 31. I po...