Committee
Justice Committee 01 March 2016
01 Mar 2016 · S4 · Justice Committee
Item of business
Abusive Behaviour and Sexual Harm (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Amendments 70 and 72 to 82 would expand the scope of the intimate images offence at section 2 to cover intimate sound recordings and written communications. As I set out in the Scottish Government’s response to the committee’s stage 1 report, we took a decision to restrict the offence to the sharing of intimate images because almost all the cases that we are aware of have involved the sharing of images. Unfortunately, we are all too aware that there are far too many websites set up specifically to enable people to post intimate photographs or films of their partners or ex-partners. I am not aware of similar websites on which people post voice messages or emails written by or to their partner or ex-partner. The sharing of images that may enable a complete stranger to identify the victim is, in our view, a betrayal of trust and a breach of privacy, which is especially likely to cause distress. That is, of course, part of the justification for the new offence. It is worth remembering that it will remain possible for prosecutors to use existing laws in relation to the sharing of written or recorded material—in appropriate cases—by using, for example, the Communications Act 2003 offence, or the offence of threatening or abusive behaviour. The committee’s stage 1 report noted that a majority of the committee support restricting the scope of the offence to photographs and films, and that the committee is mindful of the risk of unintended consequences if the bill takes too wide an approach in this area. On the question of unintended consequences, I note that these amendments apply not only to intimate recordings—written or spoken by the victim—but also those directed to or left for the victim. A perverse effect of that is that a person could face criminal liability for publishing or disclosing a communication that they themselves had written, or a voicemail message that they had left. More generally, although it is hard to envisage circumstances in which someone would have legitimate reason to share intimate photographs or films of their partner or ex-partner with a third party without their consent, it is easier to imagine circumstances in which they might wish to share a written message or voice message with a friend. They may, for example, be confused or even fearful because of what they might consider to be disturbing sexual content in a message sent to them. They may wish to seek advice about what to do about that and, if these amendments are agreed to, they could be criminally liable in those circumstances. It may be helpful if I give the committee an example of how that could apply in our understanding of Margaret McDougall’s amendments—how they could criminalise behaviour in the following circumstances. 11:30 Two 13-year-olds exchange messages about a celebrity. During the exchange, one of the teenagers indicates that they fancy the celebrity and would like to have sexual relations with them. The other teenager decides to share that text with other people in their class at school. In that situation, a communication has taken place that a reasonable person would consider to be sexual in nature and a reasonable person would expect to be kept private. The person who shared the text has committed a criminal offence if it can be shown that they were reckless about whether sharing the message would cause the other person fear, alarm or distress. However, although it would probably be embarrassing and distressing for the person whose message has been shared, our view is that the person who has shared the message should not be committing an offence. It is our understanding that Margaret McDougall’s amendments would criminalise such behaviour. As we said in our response to the committee’s stage 1 report, we are happy to monitor the issue as the offence is implemented to assess whether we need to reconsider the scope of the offence in the future. However, we consider that the scope of the offence that is contained in the bill takes the right approach and therefore ask members not to support amendments 70 and 72 to 85.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Item 2 is the Abusive Behaviour and Sexual Harm (Scotland) Bill. I will try to ensure that we get through all the amendments today, so speeches should be sho...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 69, in the name of Margaret Mitchell, is in a group on its own.
Margaret Mitchell
Con
Amendment 69, which was lodged on behalf of the Law Society of Scotland, would restrict the test for the domestic abuse aggravation to intent rather than int...
Elaine Murray
Lab
I oppose amendment 69. I think that it would provide abusers with a defence that they did not mean to do what they did. I listened to what the Law Society ha...
Roderick Campbell
SNP
I concur with Elaine Murray’s views about the wideness of the provision. From looking back at its evidence, I think that the Law Society seemed to be instinc...
The Convener
SNP
And, on cue, cabinet secretary.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson)
SNP
Amendment 69 relates to the domestic abuse aggravator in section 1. The bill provides that, where an offence is committed against an offender’s partner or ...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
It is clear that amendment 69 is a probing amendment. What the cabinet secretary has not addressed in his comments is the issue of recklessness when it is a ...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 70, in the name of Margaret McDougall, is grouped with amendments 72 to 82.
Margaret McDougall
Lab
The aim of these amendments is to expand the disclosure section in the bill. The bill only covers the disclosure of photographs and film. The amendments, whi...
John Finnie
Ind
I have to say that I have changed my position on this matter. The intention of this section of the bill is very clear. Margaret McDougall talked about those ...
Roderick Campbell
SNP
I recognise that there are different opinions from various groups about whether the section should be extended. I take on board the point that Margaret McDou...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
I will not say very much, because I do not have much of a voice. I suggest that we proceed cautiously. I agree with what Roddy Campbell said, and I do not su...
The Convener
SNP
Some people will wish that I would get that affliction occasionally. Laughter. The cabinet secretary is smiling in agreement at that comment, which is not a ...
Michael Matheson
SNP
Amendments 70 and 72 to 82 would expand the scope of the intimate images offence at section 2 to cover intimate sound recordings and written communications. ...
Margaret McDougall
Lab
I understand that amendment 70 might introduce unintended consequences, but you have to show criminal intent to break the law and be charged with a crime. As...
The Convener
SNP
You have already moved it and, because you have asked the cabinet secretary to respond, I will allow him to do so.
Michael Matheson
SNP
The first thing that I should say is that recklessness is not the same as intent, and the test is less onerous in those cases. I am always willing to have d...
The Convener
SNP
It is decision time, Margaret.
Margaret McDougall
Lab
I note what the cabinet secretary says, but I will press amendment 70.
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 70 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) McDougall, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab) Murray, Elaine (Dumfriesshire) (Lab...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 6, Abstentions 0. Amendment 70 disagreed to.
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 71, in the name of Margaret Mitchell, is in a group on its own.
Margaret Mitchell
Con
Section 2 will create a new offence of disclosing, or threatening to disclose, an intimate photograph or film. Under section 2(1), an offence will be committ...
Elaine Murray
Lab
I oppose amendment 71, for many of the reasons why I opposed amendment 69. As I said during the stage 1 debate, I have no sympathy for the flatmate who takes...
The Convener
SNP
Boxer shorts are featuring highly in today’s conversation. I know we are going to have more of this.
Roderick Campbell
SNP
Perhaps I should refer to my interest—
The Convener
SNP
I thought that you were going to refer to your boxer shorts for a moment. I beg your pardon—that was very silly of me.
Roderick Campbell
SNP
That would be too much information, convener. I was referring to my entry in the register of members’ interests and my membership of the Faculty of Advocates...