Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 01 March 2016
01 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security
At the beginning of the debate, Alex Neil said that this was an historic day. I agree. These are indeed exciting times as we move forward and take advantage of the powers that will be given to us by the new Scotland Bill.
I must contrast my experience on the bill’s tax provisions and those on welfare. I found the tax provisions simple and easy to understand. As a result, they have not been a particular source of discussion during the process. On the other hand, the welfare provisions were complex and difficult to understand. Although I would give them the benefit of the doubt and say that we did not understand them correctly initially, it has been necessary for substantial amendments to be made to them.
In the spirit of co-operation that we have had—most of the way—throughout the debate, I would like to take credit to some extent for having not accepted the welfare proposals as they originally appeared and contributing, I hope, to the improvement that we have experienced.
However, there are ways in which we will differ from others in the debate. Perhaps that is easiest to point out if I contrast my views with those that were expressed by Stewart Stevenson just a moment ago. I believe that work is an extremely important factor in encouraging people to participate in life and in society.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15758, in the name of Alex Neil, on social security. We do not have a lot of time in hand. 15:39
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights (Alex Neil)
SNP
I am delighted to open today’s debate and to set out progress and plans on social security—especially because this is the first genuinely important social se...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
When the minister was analysing all his proposals, did he ever foresee a “benefits stampede” to Scotland, as the Conservatives have described it?
Alex Neil
SNP
No—not at all. That would be inconceivable, particularly with the benefits in question because they relate to severe illness and disability. I do not envisag...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
One of the most depressing features of our politics over the past few decades has been the tone of the debate about social security—or welfare, as it has, sa...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
Does Neil Findlay agree that the Conservatives should note the work of George Barnes of the Amalgamated Society of Engineers, who was the champion of the pen...
Neil Findlay
Lab
I am sure that that was the case. He was probably in Mr Stevenson’s class at school. However, Mr Stevenson makes a valid point. From all that emerged the po...
John Lamont (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
I welcome the opportunity to speak in today’s important debate, and I am pleased that the Scottish Government is working with the UK Government on a smooth t...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP)
SNP
The member has asked the Scottish Government to outline its proposals; when will we hear what the Conservative proposals are? Can he begin to outline them fo...
John Lamont
Con
I think that the Conservative position is very clear. We have always believed that the role of the Government and of society is to give a helping hand to tho...
Alex Neil
SNP
Can I make it clear that under the Scotland Bill as it stands, even with the devolved benefits, we will not—unfortunately—have responsibility for the sanctions?
John Lamont
Con
But the Scottish Government will have the possibility of creating new benefits and the possibility of having conditions attached to those benefits. Ministers...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I open with a quotation from one of the architects of the social security system, Barbara Castle: “There was no welfare state, and people had to rely mainly...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights is right that this is a big day. It is one of those historic events, because we ...
Hugh Henry (Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
Lab
I am glad that, in his speech, the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights reflected some of the Welfare Reform Committee’s ...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
I was pleased when the Parliament accepted an amendment of mine to the Welfare Funds (Scotland) Bill that enshrined dignity and respect in that legislation. ...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
It is an honour to speak on social security in Scotland. The new powers that the Scottish Parliament now has present a huge opportunity for us to build a fai...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP)
SNP
Social security is a concept that is enshrined in article 22 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states: “Everyone, as a member of society, ...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
As other members have said, the Scottish Parliament is to assume important new powers with regard to several aspects of the social security system as a conse...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
I offer some respect to Hugh Henry. If that was his valedictory address to us, there is no better subject that he could have been speaking about. He is not s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
We move to closing speeches. I call Alex Johnstone, who has up to four minutes. 16:36
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
At the beginning of the debate, Alex Neil said that this was an historic day. I agree. These are indeed exciting times as we move forward and take advantage ...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
Will Mr Johnstone give way?
Alex Johnstone
Con
No, thank you. As a result, I have no qualms about suggesting that social security should be tied, wherever necessary, to encouraging and supporting people ...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I am grateful for the opportunity to close the debate on behalf of the Scottish Labour Party. Social security has been a bit of a focus of mine while I have ...
Alex Neil
SNP
As a fellow member of the 1999 intake, I pay tribute to Hugh Henry, who has served in this Parliament for the past 17 years as a minister, as a back bencher ...
Neil Findlay
Lab
While Mr Neil is on the subject, would he care to comment on today’s revelations in the online journal The Ferret about the links between his party and the p...
Alex Neil
SNP
I am totally unaware of any such connection. I am sure that I speak on behalf of the Minister for Housing and Welfare when I say that neither of us has any s...