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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 March 2016

01 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security

As other members have said, the Scottish Parliament is to assume important new powers with regard to several aspects of the social security system as a consequence of the Smith agreement. The work that the Government has been undertaking in advance of that change is to be welcomed.

I appreciate that all options must be considered, including the option of having the DWP continue to operate Scotland’s system in order that it can be evaluated, even if there is no appetite for it to do the work. I assume that option 5, which is outsourcing by procurement, was included for the same reason; I note that that option did not perform well against the six criteria. I would be very concerned if Scotland’s social security system became a vehicle for private sector profit.

Last week we discussed “Scotland’s National Action Plan for Human Rights—Year Two Report”. SNAP has argued consistently for the benefits of taking a human rights approach to the commissioning and delivery of services—a point that the Health and Social Care Alliance Scotland makes in its briefing for this debate. Much of the work done by SNAP so far has been on changing culture and practice in the delivery of existing services. Setting up a new system is a golden opportunity to embed that human rights approach from the very beginning.

The Health and Social Care Alliance and Enable Scotland both argue that a cultural shift in the delivery of social services can be created. Both organisations stress the need for a person-centred approach to decision making and budgeting that seeks the best outcomes for the individual and their family. Both also consider that this is an opportunity to change the way in which social security is described and discussed—members have mentioned the derogatory terminology that is used around benefits and welfare. I hope that a more positive attitude towards disability, for example, can be encouraged, and that as the process continues it will be inclusive and responsive to the concerns of the people who will be involved in the system.

I turn to the Labour amendment. I think that the majority of members recognise that addressing the inequalities that affect childhood are key to creating not only a fairer society but a more prosperous country, the economy of which will be supported by a highly trained and skilled workforce. Although we may all agree on that, there are shocking statistics on the extent of child poverty and inequality in Scotland today. More than one in five children live in poverty, and at age five, the most disadvantaged children are 13 months behind the average in terms of development. Indeed, there is evidence of inequality of opportunity starting before birth. That is why we argue that addressing child poverty should be top priority, and devolved social security powers are one tool that we will have in the future. However, we need to be honest about revenue. Addressing such deep-rooted inequality will cost money. This Parliament will need to raise the revenue to effect these changes and we should not run away from saying so or from discussing the best ways of doing that.

The Tory amendment is intriguing, in a sense—I am being polite—in that it speaks of the “benefits of the workplace” and of

“treating people with dignity and respect”.

The latter cannot be said for the welfare reforms that the UK Government has brought in, under the direction of lain Duncan Smith. As for the “benefits of the workplace”, the current UK Government has done its utmost to reduce in-work benefits. As someone who supports the UK remaining in the European Union, I can only hope that Mr Duncan Smith brings the same success to the leave campaign that he has brought to the welfare reform programme.

This Parliament will begin to gain substantial new powers from the time that the new parliamentary session is convened, and it will gain them increasingly over the course of the session. I agree with the cabinet secretary that we should work together to ensure a smooth transition, but the exercise of the new powers by the next Government, whoever forms it, must be robustly scrutinised by the Parliament, and its success must be assessed in terms of outcomes, not assertions.

16:32  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15758, in the name of Alex Neil, on social security. We do not have a lot of time in hand. 15:39
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights (Alex Neil) SNP
I am delighted to open today’s debate and to set out progress and plans on social security—especially because this is the first genuinely important social se...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
When the minister was analysing all his proposals, did he ever foresee a “benefits stampede” to Scotland, as the Conservatives have described it?
Alex Neil SNP
No—not at all. That would be inconceivable, particularly with the benefits in question because they relate to severe illness and disability. I do not envisag...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
One of the most depressing features of our politics over the past few decades has been the tone of the debate about social security—or welfare, as it has, sa...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Does Neil Findlay agree that the Conservatives should note the work of George Barnes of the Amalgamated Society of Engineers, who was the champion of the pen...
Neil Findlay Lab
I am sure that that was the case. He was probably in Mr Stevenson’s class at school. However, Mr Stevenson makes a valid point. From all that emerged the po...
John Lamont (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
I welcome the opportunity to speak in today’s important debate, and I am pleased that the Scottish Government is working with the UK Government on a smooth t...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
The member has asked the Scottish Government to outline its proposals; when will we hear what the Conservative proposals are? Can he begin to outline them fo...
John Lamont Con
I think that the Conservative position is very clear. We have always believed that the role of the Government and of society is to give a helping hand to tho...
Alex Neil SNP
Can I make it clear that under the Scotland Bill as it stands, even with the devolved benefits, we will not—unfortunately—have responsibility for the sanctions?
John Lamont Con
But the Scottish Government will have the possibility of creating new benefits and the possibility of having conditions attached to those benefits. Ministers...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I open with a quotation from one of the architects of the social security system, Barbara Castle: “There was no welfare state, and people had to rely mainly...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights is right that this is a big day. It is one of those historic events, because we ...
Hugh Henry (Renfrewshire South) (Lab) Lab
I am glad that, in his speech, the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights reflected some of the Welfare Reform Committee’s ...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I was pleased when the Parliament accepted an amendment of mine to the Welfare Funds (Scotland) Bill that enshrined dignity and respect in that legislation. ...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is an honour to speak on social security in Scotland. The new powers that the Scottish Parliament now has present a huge opportunity for us to build a fai...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
Social security is a concept that is enshrined in article 22 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states: “Everyone, as a member of society, ...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
As other members have said, the Scottish Parliament is to assume important new powers with regard to several aspects of the social security system as a conse...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I offer some respect to Hugh Henry. If that was his valedictory address to us, there is no better subject that he could have been speaking about. He is not s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
We move to closing speeches. I call Alex Johnstone, who has up to four minutes. 16:36
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
At the beginning of the debate, Alex Neil said that this was an historic day. I agree. These are indeed exciting times as we move forward and take advantage ...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Mr Johnstone give way?
Alex Johnstone Con
No, thank you. As a result, I have no qualms about suggesting that social security should be tied, wherever necessary, to encouraging and supporting people ...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful for the opportunity to close the debate on behalf of the Scottish Labour Party. Social security has been a bit of a focus of mine while I have ...
Alex Neil SNP
As a fellow member of the 1999 intake, I pay tribute to Hugh Henry, who has served in this Parliament for the past 17 years as a minister, as a back bencher ...
Neil Findlay Lab
While Mr Neil is on the subject, would he care to comment on today’s revelations in the online journal The Ferret about the links between his party and the p...
Alex Neil SNP
I am totally unaware of any such connection. I am sure that I speak on behalf of the Minister for Housing and Welfare when I say that neither of us has any s...