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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 March 2016

01 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security
Henry, Hugh Lab Renfrewshire South Watch on SPTV

I am glad that, in his speech, the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights reflected some of the Welfare Reform Committee’s comments, findings and recommendations because it is important that any system reflects the need for dignity, fairness and respect. I do not underestimate the challenges that lie ahead. Mistakes will no doubt be made and not everyone will be happy with every decision that is made but, if we start out with those basic principles and the other five principles that the cabinet secretary mentioned, we start off in the right way.

I have been reflecting that this might be my last speech—or at least one of my last speeches—in the Parliament. In a sense, that is apposite because, just under 37 years ago, just after Margaret Thatcher’s election, I left teaching to become a welfare rights officer and, for 15 years, I worked in many of the poorest communities in the old Strathclyde region dealing with the consequences of unemployment, deprivation and poverty and trying to help people through a complicated welfare and benefits system. One of the things that frustrated me day in and day out was the way that people were treated. They were not treated with dignity and respect, and there was certainly little fairness.

The way that Strathclyde Regional Council and the other regional councils in Scotland approached the matter shows that, in spite of adversity, difficulties and limited budgets—in those days, there were certainly limited budgets and limited powers—many good things can happen if politicians are determined to make them happen.

Not only did Strathclyde Regional Council invest in welfare rights officers to go out and help the disadvantaged but, in the water referendum, for example, it decided to use its powers to the full effect to stop water privatisation. It had a social strategy for the 1980s that concentrated on putting resources into the poorest communities and giving additional education resources to early years, which was groundbreaking at the time, and schools in the poorest areas. It also concentrated on home helps and homemakers who worked with families and helped to get them out of poverty.

In social work, we also had imaginative use of section 10 and section 12 moneys under the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968, which helped families when the Government benefits system let them down. We also had the courageous decision to use limited powers and budgets to help miners’ families in 1984 during the miners’ strike. I could take much longer, Presiding Officer, but I see that I am running out of time.

What I would draw from that experience—and what the cabinet secretary should draw from it—is that, if we are determined to make a difference, we can do so, despite the obstacles in front of us. We can make a difference for the carers, for families in which women and children are living in poverty, and for the disabled. It just depends on whether we are determined to make that a priority.

It frustrates me that, as I leave this Parliament, I know that, like everyone in this chamber, I have done well over the past eight or nine years but that my poorest constituents have not. If we are going to make a difference in benefits, we have to follow through on the words that I agree with, and show that, by our actions, we will make a difference for those who are disadvantaged in our society.

16:15  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15758, in the name of Alex Neil, on social security. We do not have a lot of time in hand. 15:39
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights (Alex Neil) SNP
I am delighted to open today’s debate and to set out progress and plans on social security—especially because this is the first genuinely important social se...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
When the minister was analysing all his proposals, did he ever foresee a “benefits stampede” to Scotland, as the Conservatives have described it?
Alex Neil SNP
No—not at all. That would be inconceivable, particularly with the benefits in question because they relate to severe illness and disability. I do not envisag...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
One of the most depressing features of our politics over the past few decades has been the tone of the debate about social security—or welfare, as it has, sa...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Does Neil Findlay agree that the Conservatives should note the work of George Barnes of the Amalgamated Society of Engineers, who was the champion of the pen...
Neil Findlay Lab
I am sure that that was the case. He was probably in Mr Stevenson’s class at school. However, Mr Stevenson makes a valid point. From all that emerged the po...
John Lamont (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
I welcome the opportunity to speak in today’s important debate, and I am pleased that the Scottish Government is working with the UK Government on a smooth t...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
The member has asked the Scottish Government to outline its proposals; when will we hear what the Conservative proposals are? Can he begin to outline them fo...
John Lamont Con
I think that the Conservative position is very clear. We have always believed that the role of the Government and of society is to give a helping hand to tho...
Alex Neil SNP
Can I make it clear that under the Scotland Bill as it stands, even with the devolved benefits, we will not—unfortunately—have responsibility for the sanctions?
John Lamont Con
But the Scottish Government will have the possibility of creating new benefits and the possibility of having conditions attached to those benefits. Ministers...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I open with a quotation from one of the architects of the social security system, Barbara Castle: “There was no welfare state, and people had to rely mainly...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights is right that this is a big day. It is one of those historic events, because we ...
Hugh Henry (Renfrewshire South) (Lab) Lab
I am glad that, in his speech, the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights reflected some of the Welfare Reform Committee’s ...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I was pleased when the Parliament accepted an amendment of mine to the Welfare Funds (Scotland) Bill that enshrined dignity and respect in that legislation. ...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is an honour to speak on social security in Scotland. The new powers that the Scottish Parliament now has present a huge opportunity for us to build a fai...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
Social security is a concept that is enshrined in article 22 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states: “Everyone, as a member of society, ...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
As other members have said, the Scottish Parliament is to assume important new powers with regard to several aspects of the social security system as a conse...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I offer some respect to Hugh Henry. If that was his valedictory address to us, there is no better subject that he could have been speaking about. He is not s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
We move to closing speeches. I call Alex Johnstone, who has up to four minutes. 16:36
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
At the beginning of the debate, Alex Neil said that this was an historic day. I agree. These are indeed exciting times as we move forward and take advantage ...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Mr Johnstone give way?
Alex Johnstone Con
No, thank you. As a result, I have no qualms about suggesting that social security should be tied, wherever necessary, to encouraging and supporting people ...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful for the opportunity to close the debate on behalf of the Scottish Labour Party. Social security has been a bit of a focus of mine while I have ...
Alex Neil SNP
As a fellow member of the 1999 intake, I pay tribute to Hugh Henry, who has served in this Parliament for the past 17 years as a minister, as a back bencher ...
Neil Findlay Lab
While Mr Neil is on the subject, would he care to comment on today’s revelations in the online journal The Ferret about the links between his party and the p...
Alex Neil SNP
I am totally unaware of any such connection. I am sure that I speak on behalf of the Minister for Housing and Welfare when I say that neither of us has any s...