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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 March 2016

01 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security

I open with a quotation from one of the architects of the social security system, Barbara Castle:

“There was no welfare state, and people had to rely mainly on the Poor Law—that was all the state provided. It was very degrading, very humiliating. And there was a means test for receiving poor relief.”

I believe that Barbara Castle and her Labour colleagues of that time, as mentioned by Mr Findlay, would be appalled that today, in the 21st century, we are back to situations in which the experience of the unemployed, carers, disabled people and pensioners of our social security system—which was designed by its architects to be their right to protection and a safety net—is regarded by many, to use Barbara Castle’s words again, as “degrading” and “very humiliating”.

Our experience on the Welfare Reform Committee is that time and again—in formal evidence, at your say sessions and at committee visits, including one to Craigmillar last year—we have heard that those who are in need and vulnerable are left feeling degraded, humiliated and stigmatised by their interaction with the social security system.

The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights has praised the work of the Welfare Reform Committee. One of the anonymous submissions to the committee stated:

“As I look back at my time as a claimant I cannot help but see with clarity that my dealing with ATOS and the benefits system in many ways contributed to my becoming profoundly sick. The benefits staff were very polite, but they were part of what I would call a punitive, and abusive system.”

I am therefore delighted that the Scottish Government has announced that a new benefits agency for Scotland will have dignity and respect at its heart. The new agency will be responsible for the delivery of £2.7 billion of social security payments in Scotland. That is just the tip of the iceberg—it is only 15 per cent of the overall budget for social security—but it is nonetheless welcome. The Scottish Government will be able to influence the way that we deliver disability living allowance, personal independence payments, carers allowance, funeral payments and cold weather and winter fuel payments.

Significantly, the Scottish Government will also be able to top up or create new benefits. I welcome the announcements that the cabinet secretary has already made. The Scottish Government will raise carers allowance to the same level as jobseekers allowance; abolish rather than mitigate the bedroom tax; and take cognisance of the concerns regarding the delivery of universal credit, and particularly how it might affect vulnerable adults and those with addictions, as well as women who are seeking to leave the predicament of a domestic violence situation. That was highlighted by the Welfare Reform Committee’s work in the area.

The condition of multiple sclerosis is known in my family. In a briefing from the MS Society Scotland, Audrey from Inverness is quoted as saying:

“My last assessment for DLA caused me to have an anxiety attack: The assessor wasn’t listening to me and his subsequent report was full of inaccuracies.”

I say to Audrey from Inverness that I hope that, in future, her experience will be one of dignity, fairness and respect.

16:07  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15758, in the name of Alex Neil, on social security. We do not have a lot of time in hand. 15:39
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights (Alex Neil) SNP
I am delighted to open today’s debate and to set out progress and plans on social security—especially because this is the first genuinely important social se...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
When the minister was analysing all his proposals, did he ever foresee a “benefits stampede” to Scotland, as the Conservatives have described it?
Alex Neil SNP
No—not at all. That would be inconceivable, particularly with the benefits in question because they relate to severe illness and disability. I do not envisag...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
One of the most depressing features of our politics over the past few decades has been the tone of the debate about social security—or welfare, as it has, sa...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Does Neil Findlay agree that the Conservatives should note the work of George Barnes of the Amalgamated Society of Engineers, who was the champion of the pen...
Neil Findlay Lab
I am sure that that was the case. He was probably in Mr Stevenson’s class at school. However, Mr Stevenson makes a valid point. From all that emerged the po...
John Lamont (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
I welcome the opportunity to speak in today’s important debate, and I am pleased that the Scottish Government is working with the UK Government on a smooth t...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
The member has asked the Scottish Government to outline its proposals; when will we hear what the Conservative proposals are? Can he begin to outline them fo...
John Lamont Con
I think that the Conservative position is very clear. We have always believed that the role of the Government and of society is to give a helping hand to tho...
Alex Neil SNP
Can I make it clear that under the Scotland Bill as it stands, even with the devolved benefits, we will not—unfortunately—have responsibility for the sanctions?
John Lamont Con
But the Scottish Government will have the possibility of creating new benefits and the possibility of having conditions attached to those benefits. Ministers...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I open with a quotation from one of the architects of the social security system, Barbara Castle: “There was no welfare state, and people had to rely mainly...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights is right that this is a big day. It is one of those historic events, because we ...
Hugh Henry (Renfrewshire South) (Lab) Lab
I am glad that, in his speech, the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights reflected some of the Welfare Reform Committee’s ...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I was pleased when the Parliament accepted an amendment of mine to the Welfare Funds (Scotland) Bill that enshrined dignity and respect in that legislation. ...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is an honour to speak on social security in Scotland. The new powers that the Scottish Parliament now has present a huge opportunity for us to build a fai...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
Social security is a concept that is enshrined in article 22 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states: “Everyone, as a member of society, ...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
As other members have said, the Scottish Parliament is to assume important new powers with regard to several aspects of the social security system as a conse...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I offer some respect to Hugh Henry. If that was his valedictory address to us, there is no better subject that he could have been speaking about. He is not s...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
We move to closing speeches. I call Alex Johnstone, who has up to four minutes. 16:36
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
At the beginning of the debate, Alex Neil said that this was an historic day. I agree. These are indeed exciting times as we move forward and take advantage ...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Mr Johnstone give way?
Alex Johnstone Con
No, thank you. As a result, I have no qualms about suggesting that social security should be tied, wherever necessary, to encouraging and supporting people ...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful for the opportunity to close the debate on behalf of the Scottish Labour Party. Social security has been a bit of a focus of mine while I have ...
Alex Neil SNP
As a fellow member of the 1999 intake, I pay tribute to Hugh Henry, who has served in this Parliament for the past 17 years as a minister, as a back bencher ...
Neil Findlay Lab
While Mr Neil is on the subject, would he care to comment on today’s revelations in the online journal The Ferret about the links between his party and the p...
Alex Neil SNP
I am totally unaware of any such connection. I am sure that I speak on behalf of the Minister for Housing and Welfare when I say that neither of us has any s...