Committee
Local Government and Regeneration Committee 24 February 2016
24 Feb 2016 · S4 · Local Government and Regeneration Committee
Item of business
Commission on Local Tax Reform
One of the criticisms that has been made of the commission is that it tried to work within the existing financial parameters of local government and looked at raising the same level of revenue. That should be seen particularly in the light of demands that will be made this afternoon by two political parties that will ask for more money to be raised at a local level. Why did you want to work within the existing financial parameters rather than consider the possibility of increasing the amount that is raised through implementing a new taxation system other than the community charge or council tax system?
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Agenda item 5 is an evidence-taking session on the commission on local tax reform. I welcome Marco Biagi, co-chair of the commission and Minister for Local G...
Marco Biagi
We wish to make a joint opening statement, which—with your permission, convener—I will begin.
The Convener
SNP
Please do, minister.
Marco Biagi
Good morning. Both co-chairs of the commission thank the committee for its invitation, and I should note that we are joined today by officials from COSLA and...
Councillor David O’Neill (Commission on Local Tax Reform and Convention of Scottish Local Authorities)
Our commission, which was convened in February last year, met in full on 16 occasions. Our remit required us to “engage with communities across Scotland to ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much. Even I will forgo the offer of the box set, Councillor O’Neill. Thank you for recognising the committee’s role in the establishment of ...
Marco Biagi
It will deliver a different result to all the previous reports that have ended up sitting on a shelf, because the people who will have to look the electorate...
Councillor O’Neill
As members will recall, the present system was brought in to replace the poll tax, but it has to be said that it was botched. It was introduced in a hurry, a...
The Convener
SNP
Gentlemen, how long do you think that it will take for any replacement to come into play?
Councillor O’Neill
I suspect that there would need to be a degree of primary legislation and possibly some secondary legislation. Realistically, I do not see a replacement comi...
Marco Biagi
I largely agree. It partly depends on what each party wants to bring forward. There are different timescales for different types of taxation based on how muc...
The Convener
SNP
The committee has done a fair amount of going out and about and seeking the views of members of the public, and you have done likewise in the course of the c...
Councillor O’Neill
It is fair to say that the vast majority of people to whom we spoke had not given the matter a great deal of thought other than that they did not like the pr...
The Convener
SNP
Minister, do you have anything to add?
Marco Biagi
At the start, there were different degrees of familiarity with each of the different types of taxation. I found it remarkable watching people who had never b...
Cameron Buchanan
Con
Good morning. A few criticisms have been levelled about why the commission did not deal with business rates or non-domestic rates. It was a commission on loc...
The Convener
SNP
Who wants to take that one?
Marco Biagi
Our remit that was agreed on the basis that we needed a detailed and substantial piece of work on council tax, because council tax is the largest chunk of lo...
The Convener
SNP
Do you think that, if the commission’s work had been broader, there may have been less public engagement? 11:30
Councillor O’Neill
It must be borne in mind that the commission followed Ms Sturgeon’s appointment as First Minister and was announced in the programme for government. Hindsigh...
Cameron Buchanan
Con
The word “parallel” has been used. That is the key. People felt that non-domestic rates should be considered in parallel with the council tax, but that did n...
Marco Biagi
I have been in discussions with local government. We have had regular meetings with local government and with the cities alliance, and the issue of non-domes...
Councillor O’Neill
The two things are very different. If my memory serves me correctly, there are 2.5 million domestic properties in Scotland and around 60,000 non-domestic pro...
Cameron Buchanan
Con
That is very interesting. However, to the councils and the public the two are one and the same thing, as the issue is how councils raise their money through ...
Councillor O’Neill
With all due respect, by and large, the public were not aware of how local authorities raised money. The vast number of people thought that the bulk of their...
John Wilson
Ind
One of the criticisms that has been made of the commission is that it tried to work within the existing financial parameters of local government and looked a...
Councillor O’Neill
Initially, we looked at something that would be cost neutral but different from what exists currently. Would that remain cost neutral in the future? Who know...
Marco Biagi
I would not say that we took a view on that. There is clear recognition of the fact that there is a positive way of not taking a view on something. For examp...
John Wilson
Ind
Minister, you talked about the 45-minute session in which you looked at the land value tax issue. Not only for political parties but particularly for the mem...
Marco Biagi
I think that everybody who was involved knows a lot more about the process than they did before. Certainly, those who came along to our participation session...