Committee
Justice Sub-Committee on Policing 25 February 2016
25 Feb 2016 · S4 · Justice Sub-Committee on Policing
Item of business
Information and Communication Technology
On the point that Kevin Stewart made about expertise, I personally led the teams that delivered the national intelligence database for Scotland, which is still in existence. Thereafter, for my sins, I delivered the criminal histories system, which also still runs right across Scotland. In that context, I can commiserate with Hamish Macpherson with regard to his current responsibilities. I know that he is not responsible for what happened, but he is now accountable for where we are. In May 2013, Mr Leven, you told the sub-committee that the longer that systems are in place without being replaced, the greater the risk of failure. In the subsequent meeting, in June, the chief constable gave us an assurance that i6 would begin in phases in 2015, and that it would commence operation from those phases. No doubt we will do a post mortem if we get to the stage at which this thing grinds to a halt. My problem is with the time that it has taken to call the company to account and know whether we are going to get a system delivered. You mentioned a summit meeting. I know that you cannot give us the confidential figures but I take it that one of the options that was discussed at that meeting was that, in the event that Accenture was unable to deliver, a number would need to be considered and negotiated so that you could move on and deliver a system. Am I right in assuming that that was discussed at that meeting?
In the same item of business
The Convener (Christine Grahame)
SNP
I welcome everyone to the Justice Sub-Committee on Policing’s second meeting of 2016. I ask everyone to switch off mobile phones and other electronic devices...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
Good afternoon, gentlemen. A number of weeks ago, I was told that this was all off the rails—that it was not going well. Can you please give us a general ov...
The Convener
SNP
Are you talking about i6?
John Finnie
Ind
Yes.
Martin Leven (Police Scotland)
I was about to clarify that, because everything else is doing well.
The Convener
SNP
Were there other things on the rails? Laughter. Perhaps I should not have intervened.
Martin Leven
According to one of this morning’s national papers, we are about to cancel i6. That is not a fact; i6 is currently in commercial renegotiation with Accenture...
Chief Superintendent Hamish Macpherson (Police Scotland)
First, I will give a bit of background. In June, we received for user-acceptance testing a product on which product testing had been completed. Members will ...
The Convener
SNP
What was the number?
Chief Superintendent Macpherson
At one point, we ended up with 12 critical errors in the system—errors that stop one progressing through the system—when there should have been none. There w...
The Convener
SNP
The point is that some of the errors were critical.
Chief Superintendent Macpherson
Yes. There were a number of critical and major errors that were stopping us progressing through the application. At that point, the supplier was struggling t...
The Convener
SNP
What does that mean?
Chief Superintendent Macpherson
Basically, it means that the information that the supplier gave us was subject to commercial embargo: there is a limit to what I can say to the committee abo...
The Convener
SNP
Wait a wee minute. We were told that “a contract variation agreement was signed in April 2014 protecting the delivery of the original requirements at no ad...
Chief Superintendent Macpherson
Indeed—but we are still there. The original plan that the supplier provided to us asked for additional finance. Also, the timescales did not work out for us....
John Finnie
Ind
Do we have the right people sitting in front of us? Clearly, we want the practitioners, who will advise what is to be designed, and we want senior management...
Chief Superintendent Macpherson
We are having contractual discussions with the supplier. We are not at the lawyer stage yet. What is on the table is a potential way forward. We have just go...
John Finnie
Ind
At what point will we move beyond things being deemed to be commercially confidential? Our obligation as a committee is to understand the financial arrangeme...
Chief Superintendent Macpherson
We will end up walking out of the without prejudice period. A without prejudice stage is only a stage that allows you to have open negotiation without puttin...
John Finnie
Ind
Is that a new initiative or was it built into the contract? We all understand that these are incredibly complicated areas. Was some latitude allowed around t...
Chief Superintendent Macpherson
Every contract has within it a remedial process. It is an Office of Government Commerce model contract, so it is just following guidance, if you like. If we ...
John Finnie
Ind
What could go wrong? If the situation cannot be resolved, what will that mean? Will the whole thing be kaput?
Chief Superintendent Macpherson
I like to think that we now have a positive way forward. If we cannot reach a positive way forward, we will have to consider options. There is always the opt...
John Finnie
Ind
Can I have a final question please, convener? It is in relation to other decisions that have been made, including on control room closures—
The Convener
SNP
Before you move on, I want to talk more about i6.
John Finnie
Ind
The question is entirely related to i6.
The Convener
SNP
Okay.
John Finnie
Ind
Thank you, convener. If there is the potential for future problems with i6, this is clearly not the time for important decisions to be taken about command an...
Martin Leven
I will pick that up. I am keen that the committee understands the matter clearly. The i6 project does not have any major impact on the control room project, ...