Committee
Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee 20 January 2016
20 Jan 2016 · S4 · Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee
Item of business
Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I thank the minister for the major step forward in amendment 16. She asserts that it is better than my amendment 72. I would not say “better”; it is equally good. It will be included at the very beginning of the bill, however, which is extremely important because the bill will say what the land statement will do. It will also say what the objectives of land reform are and what the land commission will do. It is extremely important that, at the very start of the bill, we know that land reform is about human rights, equal opportunities, reduction of inequalities, diversity in land ownership and the achievement of sustainable development. Those are vital. It will be welcome to see them expressed in the bill in that way, so I will not move amendment 72. I could express them differently, but I think that amendment 16 is a very good start. However, the nub of the argument comes in my amendment 97 and Sarah Boyack’s amendment 97A. I am pleased that the minister said that she is going to accept my amendment 75, because—although I do not question the bona fides of any Scottish minister past, present or even future—it is important that the bill ties them down to actually achieving the things that Parliament says it wants to achieve. The nub of the matter is what human rights are. It is important to pay attention to the letter that Sarah Boyack quoted from Alan Miller about human rights that we all saw yesterday. In her statement, the minister said that she would pay attention to the advice of the Scottish Human Rights Commission. I am sure that that is absolutely true and that every minister will do so—the advice of the Human Rights Commission is very important. That advice is here now: the letter that was received yesterday from Alan Miller of the Human Rights Commission gives it. The letter states that the international convention should have legal force, should be included in the legal documentation and be should a guiding document. However, it is important that the letter quotes the First Minister referring to existing rights as being the “floor not the ceiling”. It is regrettable that what we have heard today is about the proposals on rights being a ceiling that would confine the Scottish Government. Amendment 97 would not confine the Scottish Government, but would give a basis on which the Scottish Government could build a set of activities. However, the amendment makes it very clear what the Scottish Government and the land commission should consider in respect of land issues. I think that Sarah Boyack’s amendment 16A—if I might return her compliment—would be an important addition to the bill, and I would certainly support it. It will be a while before we vote on amendment 97; I doubt that we will get to it today, as it seeks to amend a section towards the end of the bill. However, I hope that the minister will reconsider her view of the amendment, because it is designed to be helpful and is certainly not designed to be constraining. It is designed to say, “Look, here are a range of things that we can consider, here are some opportunities to have international best practice and here is the floor from which we should operate”, exactly as Alan Miller said. I think that far from being something that should be resisted because it is too specific, the amendment should be welcomed because it would give very clear guidance on where to start from but would not constrain the issue of human rights. It is immensely welcome that the minister has said absolutely clearly—she led the way on this during the passage of the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Act 2015—that human rights are central to land reform. Now, we need to embed that in the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill. The Scottish Human Rights Commission has given its advice and will go on giving that advice. I think that the committee should heed that advice—which came as recently as yesterday—about what we should be trying to do. We have an opportunity to do that.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Item 4 is consideration of amendments to the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill. Today we will consider amendments from part 1 up to no further than part 5, apart f...
The Convener
SNP
We turn to the marshalled list of amendments. The first group relates to the purpose, content and effect of the land rights and responsibilities statement an...
The Minister for Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform (Aileen McLeod)
SNP
Good morning. Amendment 15 will change the definition of the land rights and responsibilities statement so that, instead of being a statement of the Scottish...
The Convener
SNP
I call Sarah Boyack to speak to amendment 16A and other amendments in the group.
Sarah Boyack
Lab
I listened with great interest to the minister’s opening statement. There was a huge amount of information in it, but I will try to pick up a couple of her p...
Michael Russell (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
SNP
I thank the minister for the major step forward in amendment 16. She asserts that it is better than my amendment 72. I would not say “better”; it is equally ...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I will be brief. Amendment 17 seeks to make absolutely clear the interrelation that exists, which I think the minister has acknowledged, between land reform ...
The Convener
SNP
Do any other members wish to speak on the amendments?
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Con
I start by saying that I am very disappointed that Graeme Dey will not move amendment 17, because I would have supported it as it addresses an issue that has...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD)
LD
I would reiterate some of what Alex Fergusson has said about amendment 17, in the name of Graeme Dey. I appreciate the minister’s point that listing some str...
Claudia Beamish
Lab
I, too, am disappointed that Graeme Dey has chosen not to move amendment 17. I understand the reasons that he gave for that, but amendment 17 says “including...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you. No other members have comments, so I ask the minister to wind up.
Aileen McLeod
SNP
I appreciate all the comments that have been made by committee members. I hope that my opening statement and our amendment 16 have very clearly responded to ...
The Convener
SNP
I call amendment 17 in the name of Graeme Dey.
Graeme Dey
SNP
Not moved, convener.
Alex Fergusson
Con
I would like to move it, convener. Amendment 17 moved—Alex Fergusson. For Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Fergusson...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0. Amendment 17 disagreed to.
The Convener
SNP
The next group of amendments is on consultation, procedure and so on on the land rights and responsibilities statement. Amendment 18, in the name of the mini...
Aileen McLeod
SNP
The purpose of amendment 18 is to require the Scottish ministers to “consult such persons as they consider appropriate” on a draft of the first land rights...
Michael Russell
SNP
Amendment 21 deals, for the greatest part, with my concerns about this issue for two reasons. The minister indicated that amendment 73 would tie down the sta...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
My amendment 7 is a relatively small amendment. Its intention is to make sure that we have a proper debate, discussion and review of the land rights and resp...
Claudia Beamish
Lab
The initial land rights and responsibilities statement and subsequent reviewed statements are significant documents that will underpin our future ownership a...
Aileen McLeod
SNP
I thank Michael Russell and Sarah Boyack for agreeing not to move their amendments. I am happy to take on board some of the points that Claudia Beamish raise...
Claudia Beamish
Lab
In view of the minister’s comments, which I appreciate, I will not move amendment 100. I look forward to hearing from the minister. Amendment 100 not moved....
The Convener
SNP
Well, there are only nine parts to go. Section 2—The Scottish Land Commission
The Convener
SNP
We move to the group on the Scottish land commission’s title. Amendment 101, in the name of Sarah Boyack, is the only amendment in the group.
Sarah Boyack
Lab
I want to add the word “reform” to the Scottish land commission’s title because I want it to reflect where the commission has come from. The commission is be...
Michael Russell
SNP
I was initially sympathetic to the amendment, but I take the opposite view to that of Sarah Boyack. The time has come to see the word “reform” as something f...
Aileen McLeod
SNP
I am grateful to Sarah Boyack for what she said about amendment 101. I agree absolutely that the land commission’s job is crucial to add impetus to change. I...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
I take the minister’s point that the intention is to make the land commission’s objective broader in light of the agricultural holdings legislation review gr...