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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 February 2016

25 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Criminal Verdicts (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

The debate has provided Parliament with a useful opportunity to look at the merits and shortcomings of having a three-verdict system in which two of the verdicts—by providing an acquittal—have the same outcome.

I reiterate that I fully respect and understand the strong and principled position taken by Michael McMahon in pursuing the removal of one of our verdicts for acquittal from the justice system. I also fully understand and acknowledge that a range of members of the Justice Committee were persuaded of the need to move from a three-verdict system to a two-verdict system. However, it is important that we are careful when we start to make alterations to the verdicts in the criminal justice system and to the interlinked aspects that play a key part in the process.

Elaine Murray highlighted a key challenge around understanding how the existing arrangements operate and what influences the decisions that our juries make. However, the very evidence from a justice of the peace that she cited and to which Graeme Pearson just referred shows that there are different understandings of what exactly a not proven verdict means and when it should be applied.

It is worth keeping in mind the areas to which the research on juries will give consideration. For example, it will look at what jurors understand to be the difference between a not guilty and a not proven verdict; why they choose one over the other; why and to what extent jurors alter their position on not proven and not guilty as a result of the jury’s deliberations; the extent to which members of a jury of 15 compared with those of a jury of 12 participate in the deliberations; the differences in the outcomes from a 12-person jury, with only two possible verdicts, and from a 15-person jury, with three verdicts, and the reasons for the different verdicts that they come to; and whether there are benefits in requiring the jury to attempt to reach a unanimous verdict. Research in all those areas will provide us with a significant level of insight into how juries arrive at their decisions—the process of deliberation that they undertake in order to arrive at an outcome. All that will assist us in understanding the jury process much more effectively.

As the Lord Bonomy review group recognised, the three component parts of our jury system—the jury majority, the jury size and the verdicts that are available—interlink. It is extremely important that we consider the issues that Lord Bonomy’s review group has highlighted and that we consult stakeholders on whether we should add further areas to the research. Once we have considered those matters, we will then, on an informed basis, be able to consider in greater detail what approach we should take in reforming this area.

In his speech, Christian Allard raised the issue of whether we should use mock or real jurors for the research. There are pros and cons to using one approach over the other, as members will appreciate. The first thing to say is that we have never had any research into jury behaviour in Scotland before and such research is rare internationally. One of the practical considerations is that we would have to amend the Contempt of Court Act 1981 to facilitate the use of real jurors, which we would not have to do if we made use of mock jurors in the research.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15429, in the name of Michael McMahon, on the Criminal Verdicts (Scotland) Bill. 15:59
Michael McMahon (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open today’s debate on the Criminal Verdicts (Scotland) Bill. Today we debate and vote on whether the Parliament agrees to the general princi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Christine Grahame to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee. 16:09
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
Presiding Officer, as you say, I am speaking on behalf of the Justice Committee and not in a personal capacity, but first I personally want to commend Michae...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
First, I would like to thank Michael McMahon and the non-Government bills unit for their work on this legislation. Like other members, I commend Michael McMa...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
As Michael McMahon said, I lodged an amendment to his motion, and I am disappointed that the Presiding Officer did not select it for debate. I will neverthel...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to participate in this stage 1 debate on the Criminal Verdicts (Scotland) Bill. Michael McMahon has waited some considerable time for the bill t...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
It has been a rollercoaster ride since I joined the Justice Committee in 2013. We have scrutinised many pieces of legislation, some of which we stopped, some...
Michael McMahon Lab
Will the member give way?
Christian Allard SNP
I am sorry, but I have only a few minutes. Perhaps the member can address the issue later. I would have been happy to consider abolishing the not proven ver...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We now move to closing speeches. 16:38
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank members for the constructive debate this afternoon. It has been a pleasure to take part in it. Like others, I begin by paying tribute to Michael McM...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As is evident from this afternoon’s debate, changes to elements of criminal justice procedure are famously difficult to achieve and sometimes take decades—an...
Michael Matheson SNP
The debate has provided Parliament with a useful opportunity to look at the merits and shortcomings of having a three-verdict system in which two of the verd...
Christine Grahame SNP
This follows on from what Cameron Buchanan said. If the not proven verdict were to disappear, the abolition would also pertain when it is not a jury making t...
Michael Matheson SNP
Of course, and that is one of the issues that we can consider when we frame the research. Using real jurors also carries a risk of exposing the system or in...
Michael McMahon Lab
I thank the staff of the non-Government bills unit, whose assistance has been invaluable to me over the past number of years. I am also grateful to the peop...
Christian Allard SNP
I thank the member for taking my intervention. He is not the first person to have quoted Victim Support Scotland. I agree with him about the not proven verdi...
Michael McMahon Lab
That is one piece of evidence, but the majority of responses to the consultation suggested otherwise. That is all evidence that allows people to determine wh...
Michael McMahon Lab
I am sorry—I will not take an intervention. At present, a jury in Scotland can return a verdict of guilty when at least eight of its members are in favour o...