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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 February 2016

25 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Criminal Verdicts (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Allard, Christian SNP North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I am sorry, but I have only a few minutes. Perhaps the member can address the issue later.

I would have been happy to consider abolishing the not proven verdict, if that was to happen in isolation. However, we are where we are, and the clear majority of the committee supports the bill’s intention to abolish the not proven verdict but does not support the proposal about jury majorities. We received evidence that opposed changing jury majorities in isolation and we were told that that should be considered alongside the other reforms proposed by Lord Bonomy.

We said in our report that further research is needed on decision making by juries. I am not so sure about that and I would not support amendment of the Contempt of Court Act 1981. In my opinion, using mock jurors is fine. I would like to hear the cabinet secretary’s views on the matter. I know that he talked about the issue and said that he wanted to take evidence. I say that I am not sure about the need for further research because we would not be here today if members of the Justice Committee had supported the abolition of the absolute requirement for corroboration.

I hope that Mr McMahon understands that some of us wanted the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill to progress as introduced. I supported then and support now the abolition of the absolute requirement for corroboration in Scots law. The cabinet secretary reminded us in January that one of the safeguards for the abolition of corroboration was changing the majority provision for juries from the existing simple majority. I was all for abolition but, despite the evidence that was received, we could not move forward and instead we got a post-corroboration safeguards review.

I feel for Michael McMahon because, after all his efforts, he could see his bill fall at stage 1. However, I gently remind him that he took a view on corroboration. In 2014, he voted for Margaret Mitchell’s amendment to call for the removal of the provisions in the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill to abolish the absolute requirement for corroboration. Further, and perhaps more important, Michael McMahon voted on that day to prevent the bill from going forward. Therefore, I will have no hesitation in voting down his bill tonight.

Here is what Highland violence against women partnership told us:

“We urge the Scottish Parliament not to take this Bill forward without considering other measures, such as the removal of corroboration, as to do so would be damaging to those seeking justice for experiences of Violence Against Women.”

There is unfinished business. I was one of the members of the committee and the Parliament who wanted to further reform the criminal justice system, but others disagreed. Members of Parliament in the next session will have to move the issue forward.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15429, in the name of Michael McMahon, on the Criminal Verdicts (Scotland) Bill. 15:59
Michael McMahon (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open today’s debate on the Criminal Verdicts (Scotland) Bill. Today we debate and vote on whether the Parliament agrees to the general princi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Christine Grahame to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee. 16:09
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
Presiding Officer, as you say, I am speaking on behalf of the Justice Committee and not in a personal capacity, but first I personally want to commend Michae...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
First, I would like to thank Michael McMahon and the non-Government bills unit for their work on this legislation. Like other members, I commend Michael McMa...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
As Michael McMahon said, I lodged an amendment to his motion, and I am disappointed that the Presiding Officer did not select it for debate. I will neverthel...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to participate in this stage 1 debate on the Criminal Verdicts (Scotland) Bill. Michael McMahon has waited some considerable time for the bill t...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
It has been a rollercoaster ride since I joined the Justice Committee in 2013. We have scrutinised many pieces of legislation, some of which we stopped, some...
Michael McMahon Lab
Will the member give way?
Christian Allard SNP
I am sorry, but I have only a few minutes. Perhaps the member can address the issue later. I would have been happy to consider abolishing the not proven ver...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We now move to closing speeches. 16:38
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank members for the constructive debate this afternoon. It has been a pleasure to take part in it. Like others, I begin by paying tribute to Michael McM...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As is evident from this afternoon’s debate, changes to elements of criminal justice procedure are famously difficult to achieve and sometimes take decades—an...
Michael Matheson SNP
The debate has provided Parliament with a useful opportunity to look at the merits and shortcomings of having a three-verdict system in which two of the verd...
Christine Grahame SNP
This follows on from what Cameron Buchanan said. If the not proven verdict were to disappear, the abolition would also pertain when it is not a jury making t...
Michael Matheson SNP
Of course, and that is one of the issues that we can consider when we frame the research. Using real jurors also carries a risk of exposing the system or in...
Michael McMahon Lab
I thank the staff of the non-Government bills unit, whose assistance has been invaluable to me over the past number of years. I am also grateful to the peop...
Christian Allard SNP
I thank the member for taking my intervention. He is not the first person to have quoted Victim Support Scotland. I agree with him about the not proven verdi...
Michael McMahon Lab
That is one piece of evidence, but the majority of responses to the consultation suggested otherwise. That is all evidence that allows people to determine wh...
Michael McMahon Lab
I am sorry—I will not take an intervention. At present, a jury in Scotland can return a verdict of guilty when at least eight of its members are in favour o...