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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 February 2016

25 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Local Government Finance (Scotland) Order 2016 [Draft]
Swinney, John SNP Perthshire North Watch on SPTV

One SNP MSP who was meeting representatives was me, in St Andrew’s house on Monday. Ken Macintosh should not give me the baseless rubbish that he comes out with.

Let us look at the substance of the offer that I made to local government. What issues are at stake? First, there is £250 million-worth of investment in health and social care integration, including investment to pay for the living wage for social care workers. What is there about that proposition that local authorities and the Labour Party could disagree with?

Secondly, we have argued for a settlement that will protect teacher numbers in our schools, so that we do not have any further erosion of their numbers and so that we preserve the pupil teacher ratio. What is there about that that Labour and local authorities could object to?

Finally, we come to the council tax freeze. I remind the Labour Party that many of the authorities that it controls were elected in 2012 on a commitment to a five-year council tax freeze. What on earth is there to object to about all that?

Over our term of government, we have put in place a set of arrangements with local government that began with the removal of ring fencing, to give local authorities much more freedom to act. Over many years of budget settlements, we protected local government from reductions in public expenditure that we as a Government faced. Local government therefore starts this difficult period with a baseline that is at a much higher level than it could have anticipated and which is at a significantly higher level than that for local government south of the border, which has been decimated by reductions in public expenditure.

I encourage members to think about the point that I made in my opening remarks. When the investment that the Government is making in integrating health and social care is taken into account, the budget reduction in resource terms amounts to less than 1 per cent of local authority expenditure. That is why the claims that the Labour Party is putting around are exaggerated.

I am surprised that Jackie Baillie returned to the territory that she returned to, because it was comprehensively debunked by the First Minister at question time, just a few hours ago, when the accusations and suggestions that the Labour Party has made were exposed for what they are.

I will make a couple of specific concluding remarks to address points that members have made. Mr Fraser asked about the distribution formula. That formula is kept under constant review by the settlement and distribution group. If there were to be a more fundamental review of distribution, we would need local government’s agreement, and local government has not signalled its willingness in that respect.

I am familiar with the issues in Aberdeen; indeed, I am the first finance minister to give the city a specific additional funding settlement. If it had not been for my actions, Aberdeen City Council would be getting £14 million less in its settlement than it is getting today.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
Good afternoon. The first item of business this afternoon is a debate on motion S4M-15735, in the name of John Swinney, on the draft Local Government Finance...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab) Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Under rule 8.17.1 of the standing orders I wish to challenge the Presiding Officer’s ruling on the non-selection of t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I thank the member for indicating in advance that he wished to raise a point of order. The member has already indicated that the Presiding Officer has advis...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy (John Swinney) SNP
The Local Government Finance (Scotland) Order 2016 seeks agreement on the allocation of revenue funding to local government for 2016-17 to enable local autho...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
It was only yesterday that workers from councils across Scotland assembled in front of this Parliament to protest the cuts that are being visited on local go...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
You must close, please.
Jackie Baillie Lab
The SNP has decided that local services are not important. Each and every cut in each and every local authority is John Swinney’s cut and the SNP’s cut.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I reiterate that we have no time in hand. 14:47
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I have always regarded the finance secretary as a reasonable man, indeed somewhat mild-mannered. It is therefore something of a surprise to see the level of ...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
I start—as I finished yesterday—with a special plea for the local alcohol and drug partnerships. The reduction of the main budget from around £69.2 million t...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Over the past few days we have discussed the budget, and we are now discussing the local government finance order, and one thing is clear to me. I certainly ...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
We are talking about policies that are written on the back of a fag packet. Mr Stewart will remember standing at the last election on a promise that no counc...
Kevin Stewart SNP
What I will say to Mr Macdonald is that I am very grateful to the late Brian Adam, who got this Government to introduce the funding floor. It means that, thi...
Lewis Macdonald Lab
Will Mr Stewart give way?
Kevin Stewart SNP
No. I have had enough of Mr Macdonald, it has to be said, just like the people of Aberdeen Central at the last election. The Government is continuing to liv...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order, please. Mr Stewart is closing.
Kevin Stewart SNP
As it stands, what the Labour Party has proposed would see a raid on the pockets of the lowest-paid workers in Scotland. Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order. Before I call the closing speakers, I remind members respectfully that everyone in the chamber is required to conduct business with courtesy, please. ...
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con) Con
I am glad that the debate has given us the chance to elaborate on the challenges and decisions that local government funding faces, because it is important t...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab) Lab
Yesterday’s stage 3 debate on the budget was a pretty depressing affair. I am sorry to say that I had little expectation that today’s debate would be any mor...
John Swinney SNP
Let me begin with the remark that Ken Macintosh made about the allegedly centralising and dictatorial policies that I preside over. Interruption. I think tha...
Jackie Baillie Lab
I do not recall muttering. I put it to the cabinet secretary that what he is doing now is actually ring fencing, which is exactly what he claims not to be do...
John Swinney SNP
I will come on to that in a second. Removing ring fencing liberated local authorities and gave them much more financial flexibility. Ken Macintosh attacked...
Ken Macintosh Lab
If that is the case, why did the cabinet secretary not come outside the Parliament yesterday to meet local government representatives?
John Swinney SNP
I hope that Ken Macintosh can understand that on budget day, when I had also appeared before the Finance Committee, it was quite difficult for me to find the...
Ken Macintosh Lab
Where was the SNP?
John Swinney SNP
One SNP MSP who was meeting representatives was me, in St Andrew’s house on Monday. Ken Macintosh should not give me the baseless rubbish that he comes out w...
Lewis Macdonald Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
I am sorry, Mr Macdonald, but the cabinet secretary is in his last 45 seconds.
John Swinney SNP
The city of Aberdeen has been given a settlement, and my colleague Kevin Stewart referred to Brian Adam’s work in bringing that about. A persuasive argument ...