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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 23 February 2016

23 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Land and Buildings Transaction Tax (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Swinney, John SNP Perthshire North Watch on SPTV

If that person owns a home in another country, the charge will apply. People will have to weigh up all the different issues. Many individual circumstances could be applied in the debate but the ones that we have just discussed will apply in the scenario that Jackie Baillie proposes.

Jackie Baillie, Lesley Brennan and Gavin Brown all made reference to the grace period, which I want to address. I have weighed up the evidence and I am not satisfied that the bill does not provide sufficient flexibility to address the issue. However, I am happy to have further discussions about it in the run-up to stages 2 and 3 to enable me to consider further some of the issues that are involved. There is, of course, provision in the bill for ministers to introduce a relief from the supplement, so we can make such provision in due course. That would not ordinarily require to be undertaken as part of stage 2 or stage 3. As I have said, I want a period for us to monitor the issue—until 30 October. We will at that point have a better impression of what is involved.

Jackie Baillie mentioned a possible delay to the UK legislation. I have no information about that, but I certainly have no intention of delaying legislation in Scotland. We took the decision that was prompted by the decision of the UK Government because I could foresee market distortion as a consequence of its decision. We have established the approach and it supports our general policy approach of wishing to protect individuals’ opportunities to access the property market. It is important that that is reflected in the bill.

One of the other issues that came up in the debate was raised by the convener of the Finance Committee and by Mark McDonald, relating to arrangements that we will increasingly have to consider. Of course, we will have to consider them for ever more, now that it is clear that we will have the powers that were envisaged under the Smith commission and the associated tax powers that will come from that. We will have to consider, in our own budgeting and financial process, how we make timeous changes to our legislation to ensure that we have in place appropriate tax arrangements. I cannot pretend that it is ideal that we have made the changes in such a short time, but we have given them a lot of thought and I am committed to further consideration of the detail during stage 2 and stage 3 to ensure that we cover any circumstances and scenarios that may arise that would require us to make more changes to legislation.

I am confident that the Government has listened carefully to stakeholders’ feedback to ensure that we are properly prepared and equipped to address further issues. However, it would be helpful for the Government—and for the incoming Government after the election in May—to have the benefit of the reflections of the Finance Committee on processes and procedures for Parliament to ensure that we can scrutinise as effectively as possible.

Mark McDonald also talked about the wider question of reliefs that would be envisaged under the legislation. I have set out some of my thinking and am committed to reflecting further on that as the bill takes its course through Parliament.

Jackie Baillie also mentioned a number of points and scenarios in respect of the detail and complexity of the legislation. I accept that there is complexity, but I think that it is incumbent on the Government to ensure that we explore as many scenarios as we can, and I am satisfied that we have in place the processes to enable that.

Mention has been made of the Government’s revenue estimates. We had what were, essentially, headline estimates of between £45 million and £70 million of expected revenue from the supplement. I have settled on £23 million—a mid-range estimate that takes into account the effects of forestalling and of behaviour changes. I believe that it is a prudent assessment for the Government to have made and one that is relevant to the budget that we have set out.

I reaffirm to Parliament the willingness of the Government to engage in detailed scrutiny on those questions and to ensure that the issues that are raised with us by stakeholders are fully and adequately addressed as we take the bill through its remaining stages.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15694, in the name of John Swinney, on the Land and Buildings Transaction Tax (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy (John Swinney) SNP
I am pleased to open the debate on the general principles of the Land and Buildings Transaction Tax (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill, which I introduced on 27 Jan...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call on Kenneth Gibson to speak on behalf of the Finance Committee. 17:57
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
It is with pleasure that I speak on behalf of the Finance Committee in this stage 1 debate on the Land and Buildings Transaction Tax (Amendment) (Scotland) B...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I welcome much of what the cabinet secretary had to say in his speech, and his recognition of the Finance Committee’s recommendations and the concerns expres...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Does Jackie Baillie accept that the supplement is a good method by which to protect local people from second home owners?
Jackie Baillie Lab
I do, and if there was any lack of clarity about that, I apologise to the member. I absolutely accept that, but there are unintended consequences that we sho...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
It appears that, both north and south of the border, the measure is far more complex than it first appeared when it was announced in the autumn statement. I ...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
Gavin Brown will accept that, in committee, I asked for empirical evidence to support that supposition but none was forthcoming. Therefore, although the sugg...
Gavin Brown Con
Mr McDonald makes a fair point. We do not have empirical evidence, but there is anecdotal evidence, which we got from a number of witnesses. That is one of t...
The Presiding Officer NPA
You will have the opportunity to return to that issue in about four minutes’ time, Mr Brown. Laughter. I call Mark McDonald. You have four minutes, but you...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
Oh, gosh. I am now under pressure to give Gavin Brown time to collect his thoughts for his summing-up speech, and perhaps—who knows?—to give him some content...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you, Mr McDonald. You actually got to four minutes and 45 seconds, so you did quite well. We now go to the wind-up speeches—Gavin Brown has four minute...
Gavin Brown Con
I have to say that it has been a fairly short debate. I want to return to the issue of the accidental second-home owner, because I genuinely think that that...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you, Mr Brown. Come May, I will not have any constituents either. 18:27
Lesley Brennan (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I will sum up for the Labour group. It has been a very short debate, but we have heard the key points. During evidence sessions, the Finance Committee heard...
John Swinney SNP
I am always delighted to be able to provide Jackie Baillie with helpful advice. I am not sure whether she was seeking advice, but she asked me whether a char...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will the Deputy First Minister give way?
John Swinney SNP
I will be happy to provide Jackie Baillie with more advice.
Jackie Baillie Lab
Does that mean than an incoming worker, who might be ordinarily resident somewhere else and is buying a property in Scotland, will be liable? Does the Deputy...
John Swinney SNP
If that person owns a home in another country, the charge will apply. People will have to weigh up all the different issues. Many individual circumstances co...