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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 23 February 2016

23 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
BBC Charter Renewal

As I have family members who are current and former BBC employees, I start by declaring an interest.

I am acutely aware that the institution has its shortcomings, but it is commendably honest about them—more so than most, perhaps. At the same time, it is an institution for which I, like countless millions in this country and across the world, have enormous admiration and affection. Like the various witnesses who gave evidence to the Education and Culture Committee over recent weeks, to whom I extend my thanks, I consider myself to be a BBC loyalist. That, in essence, is the motivation behind my amendment. I would like Parliament to state unequivocally that when it pursues legitimate claims for change and reform, those are intended to enhance and strengthen an institution that is the envy of most around the world and one that we take for granted at our peril.

The Government’s motion says nothing that explicitly endangers that institution. It asks merely that Parliament notes the Scottish National Party’s proposal. I presume that it has been drafted to try to secure a united position around which Parliament could coalesce, which is laudable. I welcome the tone of the cabinet secretary’s comments, but we cannot ignore some of the rhetoric that has been used by ministers and SNP back benchers over recent years, who have levelled accusations at the BBC. Alex Salmond still nurses his wrath and unashamedly holds the BBC responsible for his defeat in the referendum. For some within the wider nationalist movement, their motivation is less than altruistic with regard to the BBC.

That is why I believe that, if Parliament is to unite around a common view at decision time, it should do so by being unambiguous about the value of the BBC and the imperative for it to remain impartial and challenging, and about our collective desire to see change safeguard and enhance that position.

Liz Smith’s amendment makes very much the same point, drawing on concerns about the so-called joyous demonstrations outside the BBC studios in Glasgow or the appalling treatment meted out to individual BBC journalists during the referendum.

This is not about resisting change. No one is seriously arguing that change is not needed, as was clear from the evidence considered by the committee. Lord Hall himself accepted, very willingly and convincingly, that greater decentralisation of decision making is both required and desirable.

The full detail of what that should look like still seems some way off, but change is already under way. Parliament has a voice within the charter renewal process. That is a step forward, although it should be about recognising the diverse voices and views of the Scottish people, not simply the settled will of a single party—a point made fairly by Claire Baker in her amendment and acknowledged by the cabinet secretary in her remarks.

In passing, I add that I also believe that future charter renewal processes should be decoupled from the electoral cycles of Westminster and the devolved nations.

Greater transparency over budgeting is also on the cards. That is welcome, not least given the extent to which it is being asserted that Scotland is somehow short changed by the BBC. That was a constant refrain in our evidence taking, yet figures show that a higher proportion of adults in Scotland view BBC One and Two than in other parts of the UK, and 88 per cent of that content is UK network content. It is not as if there is not a choice—alternative options have scarcely ever been more available than they are now. Delivering that content, however, does and will continue to require investment from across the UK. Therein lies the conundrum for the cabinet secretary and for others who argue for a federal structure: how to square the determination to have separate Scottish television channels, radio stations and more Scottish content while simultaneously retaining the same access to UK network and content.

In support of the flowering of stations and channels, various models from across Europe were cited, although none is renowned for matching the BBC’s quality and range. Indeed, some rely heavily on importing content and therefore provide limited additional opportunities for domestic production or artistic talent. That said, as the committee concluded, there is scope for reforming the commissioning process to help grow a strong, sustainable and competitive creative industries sector in Scotland. Again, Lord Hall acknowledged and accepted that proposition.

Such reform would need to recognise the growing complexity of and collaborative nature involved in putting productions together, which make applying quotas—the mechanism of choice over recent years—increasingly difficult. That approach has delivered economic benefits to Scotland, including through the development of skills, but now is in need of change. A greater degree of decentralisation of and accountability for commissioning and budgets should lead to improvements, in relation to not just the effect on creative industries but the way in which the BBC portrays the diversity of Scottish culture and identity.

Care must be taken as to how and the extent to which that is done. For example, demands for 100 per cent of the licence fee raised in Scotland to be devolved appear to show inadequate concern for what that could actually deliver or its likely effect on the capacity of the wider BBC.

As for the idea of a federal structure, I remain to be convinced. The committee recognised that improvements do not require the BBC to be federalised. Indeed, it was interesting how often those advocating such an approach—

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item is a debate on motion S4M-15695, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on the BBC charter renewal process. 15:55
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture, Europe and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop) SNP
I am delighted to open this debate on the BBC charter renewal process. I thank the Parliament for the key role that it has played in the process. From the ou...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for taking an intervention. Parity of esteem between the Gaelic and Welsh languages is an important factor. Would she ...
Fiona Hyslop SNP
I will not just comment on that, because the idea is part of our proposals, as the member will know if he has read our document. Only yesterday, I raised dir...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Does the cabinet secretary have an idea of what the proportionate contribution to the central resource would be?
Fiona Hyslop SNP
Part of the investigation that was done by the committee of which Mark Griffin is a member looked at the provision of funding from the BBC. We identified abo...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
The BBC is one of our most valued and trusted institutions. Generations of families have grown up watching and enjoying BBC content. From the election night ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I issue the apologies of my colleague Mary Scanlon, who had hoped to take part in the debate but, unfortunately, is not well. This is an important debate, w...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
As I have family members who are current and former BBC employees, I start by declaring an interest. I am acutely aware that the institution has its shortco...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The member is in his last 20 seconds.
Liam McArthur LD
—appeared to distance themselves from it under questioning from the committee. In part, that may have been because no one appeared to have a detailed assessm...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Will the member draw to a close, please?
Liam McArthur LD
I know that Fiona Hyslop feels that accepting my amendment would result in a rather clumsy motion. That is not something that has concerned Parliament unduly...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We come to the open debate. I call Stewart Maxwell, who will speak on behalf of the Education and Culture Committee. Mr Maxwell, you have up to six minutes. ...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
As the Presiding Officer mentioned, I take the slightly unusual step of speaking, in a Government debate, as convener of the Education and Culture Committee....
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
You should draw to a close, please.
Stewart Maxwell SNP
The BBC seemed to recognise those difficulties. We welcome Lord Hall’s commitments in that area. It is vital that the BBC makes a firm commitment to maintai...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased and relieved that this is a relatively consensual debate about the future of the BBC. I am relieved because—I make no bones about this—I take a ...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
The BBC has been a foundation of our community for the past century, and it will remain so. Inevitably, though, a large communication company that covers all...
Ken Macintosh Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Chic Brodie SNP
No, I will not. The charter renewal process should and must embrace our input, in the context of proportionality, identity, diversity, creativity and cultur...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Many thanks for your brevity. 16:47
Gordon MacDonald (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) SNP
Over the past year, two parliamentary committees have conducted inquiries into the BBC’s performance in Scotland and, with cross-party support, concluded tha...
Ken Macintosh Lab
Will the member give way?
Gordon MacDonald SNP
No, I want to get through the numbers. Does the BBC really spend our contribution on those things? The BBC could not provide any detail on how it arrived a...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) Lab
Being politicians, it is natural that a lot of what we think about the BBC is determined by its political output. After all, what could be more important tha...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
This has been an interesting debate in which, at times, we seem to have veered away from the issue that we are here to discuss. I do not want any political o...
Ken Macintosh Lab
Does George Adam believe that all the money that is raised in Scotland should be spent in Scotland, or does he believe that some of it should be spent on, fo...
George Adam SNP
I think that a contribution should be made to all that, as well. By its very nature, the BBC is that type of organisation. I am saying, as I have right from ...