Committee
Health and Sport Committee 09 February 2016
09 Feb 2016 · S4 · Health and Sport Committee
Item of business
Penrose Inquiry
Philip Dolan
Watch on SPTV
I feel most strongly about the fact that during the six years—or whatever length of time it was—the victims were not listened to, and that during the year or so for which Penrose listened to stuff, he did not hear from victims. How can we deal with the matter when the people who are affected have not been heard? There are hundreds and hundreds of stories. A number of people wanted to give evidence but were dismissed. Granted, an inquiry cannot go on forever, but people did not get an opportunity. For instance, if I had been given an opportunity to give evidence, it would have been an opportunity for the Penrose inquiry’s legal team to question me and, equally, for the team that was representing people with hepatitis C to ask questions. However, I did not have that opportunity. Some of the evidence that was given, even by the experts, was found to be wanting. For instance, on the first day, during discussion of the first two cases, there was a chart that showed that Mr X had a score of, let us say, 100, which the hepatologist expert witness said was a sign that he was a heavy drinker. I had to point out to counsel that a person does not get hepatitis C from being a heavy drinker: people get cirrhosis from that. The next case involved a minister—a religious minister—who did not touch alcohol, and he had a score of 150. It reminds me of days of old, when somebody who was discussing logic would say, “All dogs are hairy”, and all that was needed for the whole argument to be defeated was for one person to come along and produce a non-hairy dog. The credibility of the evidence from that expert witness, who is also an adviser to the Skipton Fund, is questionable. As I said, my concern is that people should be listened to. If I go to the doctor, he or she will listen, take notes and base their diagnosis and decision to take action on what they have heard, but that opportunity was not afforded to us. It was a waste of £12 million. As has been said, notes were taken, but what was in the report could have been recorded by somebody who was not a judge but was good at taking shorthand. The report seemed to me to be based on someone taking notes. A lot of money was wasted, and I do not know why all the lawyers and others were there if they were not going to speak for us.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Lab
We move to our second agenda item, on the final report of the Penrose inquiry. We will hear oral evidence on the report from Petra Wright. Should that be Bil...
Petra Wright (Hepatitis C Trust)
We are not related.
Bill Wright (Haemophilia Scotland)
Fond of her as I am, convener, we are not brother and sister, or whatever.
The Convener
Lab
Petra Wright is Scottish officer for the Hepatitis C Trust, Philip Dolan is the convener of the Scottish Infected Blood Forum, and Bill Wright is chair of Ha...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
First, I thank you, convener, and the committee for holding this evidence session. I am sure that many people who have been affected by the issues that are b...
Bill Wright
The committee will be well aware that, among those of us who endured the six-year-long inquiry, the common phrase that was used was that it was a “whitewash”...
Philip Dolan (Scottish Infected Blood Forum)
I agree with many of the things that Bill Wright has said. I have written a history of the subject, and I feel like I have been haunting this place and the c...
The Convener
Lab
I will let Petra Wright respond to the first question, and then I will take some supplementaries on the inquiry process. After that, I will allow the witness...
Petra Wright
I was not personally involved in the Penrose inquiry, but I would like to comment on it. Richard Lyle mentioned the length of time that the process has take...
The Convener
Lab
Do other members have questions on the process of the inquiry?
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
I also want to ask about something else, but I will stick to that issue for the moment. I totally take on board what the witnesses have said and I understan...
Bill Wright
No—
The Convener
Lab
Just a minute, Mr Wright. Do members have any other questions on the theme of the inquiry and its outcomes? No? Okay—go ahead, Mr Wright.
Bill Wright
In the time that was taken a substantial body of evidence was collected. Much of it was new evidence of which we had not previously been aware. The inquiry t...
Philip Dolan
I feel most strongly about the fact that during the six years—or whatever length of time it was—the victims were not listened to, and that during the year or...
The Convener
Lab
Richard Lyle will take us on to the next topic.
Richard Lyle
SNP
Thank you for sharing your experience with us, Mr Dolan. Sadly, I have heard the same from other sufferers all too often. Was it a weakness that the Penrose ...
Philip Dolan
Many years ago, there was an inquiry about BSE in England, which was chaired by a Scottish judge. At the end, the inquiry came out and said that it blamed th...
Bill Wright
The question illustrates the shortcomings in the inquiry system that I alluded to. We can look at a number of inquiries. I understand that a former First Min...
The Convener
Lab
Richard Lyle has a third and final question to move us on in this theme.
Richard Lyle
SNP
Dennis Robertson has a question, so I will let him in first.
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP)
SNP
It is just a quick supplementary question on death certificates. You are saying that the cause of death could have been hepatitis C or whatever but, because ...
Bill Wright
Some improvements have been made. Previously, anybody who was medically qualified could write a death certificate. However, the legacy for us has been consid...
Petra Wright
Many deaths that were attributable to hepatitis C have been attributed to other things. Since hepatitis C became known about, evidence has emerged about area...
Bill Wright
Could I follow up on that, please?
The Convener
Lab
Yes, but you are taking time from some of the other questions.
Bill Wright
It brings us to the next issue, convener, which is financial recognition. There is a surprising frequency of death from cerebral brain haemorrhage being rec...
The Convener
Lab
Some of that is reflected in the written evidence, of course, but it is good to get it on the record.
Philip Dolan
I want to pick up on one specific point. During the inquiry, when expert witnesses came in, there were three or four doctors who all sat close together givin...
Richard Lyle
SNP
I have been involved with the issue for the past few years. Last year, I had the opportunity to go and see the emotional and hard-hitting play “Factor 9”, wh...