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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 09 February 2016

09 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Colleges

This debate would not be happening were it not for Audit Scotland and Caroline Gardner, the Auditor General for Scotland. It is on days like this that a number of us reflect that Audit Scotland is one of the few parts of the public sector that keep the rest of the public sector and the Government honest, which is what happened in this case. The convener of the Public Audit Committee rightly drew attention to Audit Scotland’s forensic analysis of what went on at Coatbridge College. Our committee report, which covers that analysis in some detail, and all the hours of evidence that we took happened only because Audit Scotland did the job that we expect it to do.

Audit Scotland deserves a heck of a lot of credit for that work, not least because, when the former principal of Coatbridge College whom we are discussing today turned up at the Public Audit Committee, the first thing that he did was to attack the Auditor General, cast doubt on the veracity of her findings and impugn her reputation. What we found out afterwards was that the person who needed to apologise for their behaviour was not the Auditor General but John Doyle.

I agree with what other members such as Colin Beattie have said. I do not know how Mr Doyle can look at himself in the shaving mirror in the morning. He should get up, write a cheque for £304,000 and pay it back, not to the Scottish funding council or even to the cabinet secretary, but to the students and staff at the college. That £304,000 would help the institution to move forward. If we achieve anything as a committee—I do not suppose that we will—it would be something on those lines.

A number of members have reflected on why all this happened, and some members, including Jackie Baillie, have drawn some of that out. I completely understand that the then cabinet secretary Mike Russell was determined to deliver a college merger programme across Scotland and he had cross-party support for that. I suspect that what happened was that the funding council was pretty well left to get on with it by the cabinet secretary and the Government of the day. We can understand that, but the fact that there was not a heck of a lot of parliamentary scrutiny of it at that time is an illustration of what is not good about public policy. It points to the need to constantly question why something is happening, even if we agree with it.

As others have said, there was no question but that, because of the merger process, a number of college principals and senior people in different colleges were going to go. That was illustrated by one of the tables that we eventually dragged out of the Scottish funding council. The 14 individuals who left different colleges across Scotland under the merger process received a total of £2.6 million of public money in pensions, on-costs, annual leave and various other things. I do not think that that would be acceptable to any of us, and it is certainly not acceptable to the woman or man who is walking down Market Street this afternoon that people could benefit to that extent from a merger process.

I agree with the comments of the convener of the Public Audit Committee, Paul Martin, and other members who have spoken this afternoon that the lines of financial accountability were just not there in the way that, frankly, we should expect. The cabinet secretary made a good point about a risk assessment at the end of her speech. It is a pity that that did not happen at the start, but she is right.

There is no better illustration of that than in the Public Audit Committee’s “Report on Scotland’s colleges 2015”, which was published on 28 September 2015. On the savings that were claimed for the merger process, the Auditor General told the committee in evidence on 29 April 2015:

“At this stage, the funding council and the Government could not give us the information that we asked for to demonstrate the costs of the merger process.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 29 April 2015; c 33.]

It is no wonder that all this was going on behind the scenes when the matter was first considered.

I ask the Government to reflect both on the committee report and on what the Auditor General has said about the lines of financial accountability and the governance of what happened, not just for Coatbridge College but for the future of public spending in Scotland.

16:49  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15584, in the name of Paul Martin, on the Public Audit Committee’s three reports: “Report on Scotland’s c...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Provan) (Lab) Lab
On behalf of the Public Audit Committee, I welcome the opportunity to highlight our work on the colleges sector, which has been a major component of the comm...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Angela Constance) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to set out the success of Scotland’s colleges, to reflect on the need for stronger accountability and to look to the future of this...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate. Colleges are critically important institutions that provide vocational education and improve employabi...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
When the Auditor General for Scotland says that this case was among the most serious failures of governance that she has ever seen in her time, the Scottish ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We come to the open debate. Members have been advised that speeches would have to be of four minutes. I can give members very slightly longer than that. 16:35
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) SNP
The Auditor General’s report “Scotland’s colleges 2015” confirmed that college finances were sound, that planning for mergers was good and that, overall, the...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) SNP
I am very grateful to the member for taking an intervention. As a member of the Public Audit Committee, I sat there thinking all the things that he has just ...
Colin Beattie SNP
The cabinet secretary mentioned that the college governance task force is looking at such issues as training of board members, so I hope that that will be ad...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Could you draw to a close, please?
Colin Beattie SNP
The investigation highlighted the unacceptable behaviour of a few people in the college sector, but we should remember that not everyone in the sector should...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab) Lab
I thank the Public Audit Committee for the in-depth work that it carried out on the reports on Coatbridge College and North Glasgow College. I think that the...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
This debate would not be happening were it not for Audit Scotland and Caroline Gardner, the Auditor General for Scotland. It is on days like this that a numb...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
I am not a member of the Public Audit Committee, but I sat on it during the first year of this session, and I am only too aware of its work programme. I appr...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
I, too, thank the Auditor General for illuminating the entire saga, and I thank the Parliament’s Public Audit Committee for the thorough and analytical repor...
Stuart McMillan (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
As someone who studied at college before attending university, I have a huge amount to thank further education for. I was happy to support the proposals for...
Liz Smith Con
In her opening speech, the cabinet secretary was quite correct to say that this is a response to three serious reports. Stuart McMillan has eloquently explai...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Before I move on, I point out that Mr Kelly was mentioned in Liz Smith’s speech but unfortunately was not in the chamber. I remind members that they should c...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the Public Audit Committee’s debate on Scotland’s colleges. I pay tribute to the Auditor General, her staff ...
Angela Constance SNP
Once again, I want to reinforce how important the work of Audit Scotland is in helping us to focus on the actions that we can and should take. When I was fir...
Nigel Don SNP
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Angela Constance SNP
I am running out of time, but I will take a brief intervention.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Be very brief.
Nigel Don SNP
I am grateful for the cabinet secretary’s comments about governance. Was she as surprised as I was at the very limited powers that OSCR seemed to have to dea...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Cabinet secretary, I can give you a few seconds more.
Angela Constance SNP
Yes, and Government officials remain in contact with OSCR to deal with any outstanding concerns that it has in relation to the powers that it has or does not...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Cabinet secretary, I must ask you to conclude.
Angela Constance SNP
Seeking that approval is a term and condition of grant, and ministers now have far more explicit powers to remove incorporated college boards for serious or ...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
This has been an excellent debate. In all the years that I have been on the Public Audit Committee, it is the first debate that that committee has had in the...