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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 09 February 2016

09 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Transplantation (Authorisation of Removal of Organs etc) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Yes. I totally agree. Also, under the bill, the relatives are consulted and their wishes are taken into account as well.

For us in Scotland—a country that has already improved public education and awareness in the health professions—the next step is surely to look at new ways of increasing donation rates through legislative and cultural change and to give serious consideration to a soft opt-out. It is not just a matter of changing the law and moving towards a position of presumed consent. It is also about changing attitudes and creating a culture of openness and understanding in which we can more readily talk before we die about what we want to happen to our bodies. There should be rigorous safeguards to make sure that liberty and choice are protected and that presumed consent does not mean taking away choice.

I am not a member of the Health and Sport Committee, but I see that many of its deliberations have focused on how to ascertain what the individual’s choices are. Families should be consulted even when their loved ones have failed to opt out, to establish whether they are aware of any objections and whether proceeding with organ donation would cause distress.

I note that the committee also discussed whether the proposed changes would lead to the desired increase in organ donations. BMA Scotland, which supports the principles of the bill, accepts that it is notoriously difficult to assess the impact of opt-out legislation on donation rates. However, it also pointed to the example of Wales, where only 3 per cent have opted out from organ donation, and we can look to other examples around the world where the legislation is different yet donation levels are higher.

Opting out is not new. Across Europe, there are plenty of examples of countries that have successfully managed opt-out systems of organ donation for many years. As we have heard, the committee visited Spain, which has the highest level of organ donation in the world.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15128, in the name of Anne McTaggart, on the Transplantation (Authorisation of Removal of Organs etc) (Sc...
Anne McTaggart (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is my great privilege to open this debate, to welcome key stakeholders and their families to the public gallery and to speak to my motion that the Parliam...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
Does Anne McTaggart agree that some of the difficulties with the bill, such as those that relate to proxies, are complex issues for which no apparent solutio...
Anne McTaggart Lab
No—I do not agree that that is the case. We have had bills to which up to 200 amendments have been lodged, so I do not agree that the issue of proxies need b...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate Ms McTaggart on bringing forward the proposal. She talked about the possibility of extra donors. Does she agree with the figures that the Brit...
Anne McTaggart Lab
Yes, I certainly agree with the British Heart Foundation Scotland. Let us be clear. There is a price to be paid for delaying the decision. I have never said...
The Minister for Public Health (Maureen Watt) SNP
I pay tribute to Anne McTaggart. She and her staff have worked tirelessly to bring us to where we are today—debating organ donation in this chamber and raisi...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will the minister take an intervention?
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Maureen Watt SNP
The Government shares the concerns that were expressed in the stage 1 report. In particular, we agree that the appointment of proxies could cause unnecessary...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister give way?
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will the minister give way?
Maureen Watt SNP
There is a particular concern in the case of adults with incapacity. The bill’s provisions could lock such adults into organ donation, because they could not...
Patricia Ferguson Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Maureen Watt SNP
NHS Blood and Transplant, which currently employs the specialist nurses, also raised concerns about the AIP role. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order.
Maureen Watt SNP
I will take an intervention from John Mason.
John Mason SNP
The minister mentioned specific provisions and aspects of the bill. Can she confirm that her opposition to the bill is based on those details and not on the ...
Maureen Watt SNP
I absolutely can. I will come to that. Although some of the issues could be addressed through amendments at stage 2, others could not be.
Drew Smith Lab
Will the minister give way?
Maureen Watt SNP
If the member would just listen, he might understand why we are objecting to the bill. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order.
Maureen Watt SNP
In particular, the authorised investigating persons provisions cannot be separated from the bill, because the proposed model requires AIPs to police the new ...
Anne McTaggart Lab
What is currently in place for that to happen?
Maureen Watt SNP
In terms of proxies? There is nothing about proxies in the system at present. Although the majority of the committee did not support the propositions in the...
Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Maureen Watt SNP
I can confirm today that, in line with the committee’s recommendation, we are starting preparation for a detailed consultation on further methods to increase...
Anne McTaggart Lab
When?
Maureen Watt SNP
If we are re-elected, we will take the matter forward as an early priority in the next session of Parliament and bring forward legislation as appropriate. W...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?