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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 09 February 2016

09 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Transplantation (Authorisation of Removal of Organs etc) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Milne, Nanette Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I do not think that I have time—I am sorry.

Another contentious aspect of the bill is the role of the authorised investigating person, who is described in the policy memorandum as a health professional whose role would be

“to determine whether or not a deceased adult’s organs can lawfully be removed and used for transplantation.”

The member in charge of the bill envisages the specialist nurse in organ donation having the role of an AIP. However, NHSBT, the Scottish Council on Human Bioethics and the Law Society of Scotland all took a different view and saw a conflict of interest between the two roles.

It is clear that there are differing opinions about some major provisions of the bill as introduced. However, what influenced me more than anything was the opinions of people who are at the coalface of transplantation—people such as Professor Forsythe, transplant surgeon and lead clinician for organ donation in Scotland, and transplant nurses—who believe that the bill could have the opposite effect from what is intended. It could lead to a loss of public trust that, in the system, organs will be taken only when that is the wish of donors and their families, and an erosion of the concept of organ donation as a gift of life, which is often of great comfort to donor families at a time of grief. That is very important and must be thought through carefully before we contemplate moving to a new system.

I have no time to go into other aspects of the bill, but I am not persuaded that changing to the soft opt-out system of organ donation as proposed would in itself result in an increase in donations. However, I would like to see further enhancement of the on-going efforts to increase organ donation, and I welcome the Scottish Government’s commitment to a thorough consultation on further ways to increase donation and transplantation, including a soft opt-out system. That should be informed by the experience in Wales, which—as we know—started to implement its legislation last December. I urge the next Government to make that an early priority and, in light of the evidence presented to it, to proceed with legislation if that is what is indicated.

We will support the amendment at decision time.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15128, in the name of Anne McTaggart, on the Transplantation (Authorisation of Removal of Organs etc) (Sc...
Anne McTaggart (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is my great privilege to open this debate, to welcome key stakeholders and their families to the public gallery and to speak to my motion that the Parliam...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
Does Anne McTaggart agree that some of the difficulties with the bill, such as those that relate to proxies, are complex issues for which no apparent solutio...
Anne McTaggart Lab
No—I do not agree that that is the case. We have had bills to which up to 200 amendments have been lodged, so I do not agree that the issue of proxies need b...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate Ms McTaggart on bringing forward the proposal. She talked about the possibility of extra donors. Does she agree with the figures that the Brit...
Anne McTaggart Lab
Yes, I certainly agree with the British Heart Foundation Scotland. Let us be clear. There is a price to be paid for delaying the decision. I have never said...
The Minister for Public Health (Maureen Watt) SNP
I pay tribute to Anne McTaggart. She and her staff have worked tirelessly to bring us to where we are today—debating organ donation in this chamber and raisi...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will the minister take an intervention?
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Maureen Watt SNP
The Government shares the concerns that were expressed in the stage 1 report. In particular, we agree that the appointment of proxies could cause unnecessary...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister give way?
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will the minister give way?
Maureen Watt SNP
There is a particular concern in the case of adults with incapacity. The bill’s provisions could lock such adults into organ donation, because they could not...
Patricia Ferguson Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Maureen Watt SNP
NHS Blood and Transplant, which currently employs the specialist nurses, also raised concerns about the AIP role. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order.
Maureen Watt SNP
I will take an intervention from John Mason.
John Mason SNP
The minister mentioned specific provisions and aspects of the bill. Can she confirm that her opposition to the bill is based on those details and not on the ...
Maureen Watt SNP
I absolutely can. I will come to that. Although some of the issues could be addressed through amendments at stage 2, others could not be.
Drew Smith Lab
Will the minister give way?
Maureen Watt SNP
If the member would just listen, he might understand why we are objecting to the bill. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order.
Maureen Watt SNP
In particular, the authorised investigating persons provisions cannot be separated from the bill, because the proposed model requires AIPs to police the new ...
Anne McTaggart Lab
What is currently in place for that to happen?
Maureen Watt SNP
In terms of proxies? There is nothing about proxies in the system at present. Although the majority of the committee did not support the propositions in the...
Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Maureen Watt SNP
I can confirm today that, in line with the committee’s recommendation, we are starting preparation for a detailed consultation on further methods to increase...
Anne McTaggart Lab
When?
Maureen Watt SNP
If we are re-elected, we will take the matter forward as an early priority in the next session of Parliament and bring forward legislation as appropriate. W...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?