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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 09 February 2016

09 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Transplantation (Authorisation of Removal of Organs etc) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Yes, I certainly agree with the British Heart Foundation Scotland.

Let us be clear. There is a price to be paid for delaying the decision. I have never said that the proposal is a silver bullet, but an opt-out system that is part of an effective organ donation strategy can and will improve organ donation.

The legislative process takes time. It has taken me two years to get to this point. Please do not let that time be wasted by making it necessary to start the whole process again. Dr Sue Robertson of the British Medical Association summed it up perfectly when she said:

“All the time we waste now means that more lives will be lost.”

We have a pretty good idea of just how many lives will be lost, as Kevin Stewart just mentioned. NHS Blood and Transplant gave some figures to the Health and Sport Committee. It believes that the bill could result in an extra 70-plus donors in Scotland each year. The director of organ donation and transplantation at NHSBT, Sally Johnson, described that figure as transformative. She told the Health and Sport Committee that, to put that figure into context, there are about 100 donors per year in Scotland, and 70 more would be transformative. Let us not squander our opportunity to begin that transformation today.

I agree with the committee’s finding that there is

“merit in developing a workable soft opt-out system for Scotland.”

The bill gives us the opportunity to contribute to agreeing a workable opt-out system. We should grab that opportunity with both hands. The evidence exists that opt-out systems work.

People will find it hard to understand why any MSP would decide to delay implementation at all, let alone for a number of years, when we could begin that process today.

The majority of the committee concluded that the Scottish Government should “consider legislating”—not that it should legislate, but that it should just “consider” doing so. For the avoidance of doubt, the SNP Government has had nine years to introduce legislation. This session, it had the opportunity to legislate rather than me—[Interruption.] Does Joe FitzPatrick want to intervene? No? I would have been happier for the Government to legislate—please believe me when I say that—but it refused to do so.

Over the years, we have heard lots of warm words of support for a soft opt-out system—from no less than our former and current First Ministers, Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon, and even from the Minister for Public Health, Maureen Watt. What we have not heard is any commitment to legislate. Therefore, I greatly regret the decision taken by the majority of the Health and Sport Committee, who seem happy to kill off the bill. I hope that they, too, do not come to regret that decision.

The majority of the Health and Sport Committee are asking members to vote down the bill before there is even a chance to amend its details and without a guarantee of anything in its place. We will be no further forward. If members vote down the bill, they will be condemning people to wait even longer for a solution to the shortage of organs. Unfortunately, for many, that wait will be too long.

The Scottish Government has said that it wants to wait and see how the new Welsh legislation works before deciding whether to introduce its own bill. If we take that approach, people would have to wait at least five or six years for any such bill to be implemented. There is no reason why people in Scotland should be expected to wait that length of time.

As I said at the start of my speech, members are debating and voting on the general principles of the bill. Its overall purpose is to introduce a soft opt-out system of organ donation in Scotland—nothing more. Members are not voting on the detail of the opt-out system or how it will work in practice. We can consider such matters later when debating amendments; that is what stages 2 and 3 are for.

Some issues transcend politics—saving people’s lives is one of them. I ask members to look beyond these walls to the people outside them and to decide what is right for them. Is it right to be asked to wait another five or six years—or however long it may be? We have the opportunity today to save more lives. Please take it. That opportunity may not come around again for a very long time. If members believe in a soft opt-out system, they should vote with their conscience and vote yes at decision time tonight.

I move,

That the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Transplantation (Authorisation of Removal of Organs etc.) (Scotland) Bill.

14:28  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15128, in the name of Anne McTaggart, on the Transplantation (Authorisation of Removal of Organs etc) (Sc...
Anne McTaggart (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is my great privilege to open this debate, to welcome key stakeholders and their families to the public gallery and to speak to my motion that the Parliam...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
Does Anne McTaggart agree that some of the difficulties with the bill, such as those that relate to proxies, are complex issues for which no apparent solutio...
Anne McTaggart Lab
No—I do not agree that that is the case. We have had bills to which up to 200 amendments have been lodged, so I do not agree that the issue of proxies need b...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate Ms McTaggart on bringing forward the proposal. She talked about the possibility of extra donors. Does she agree with the figures that the Brit...
Anne McTaggart Lab
Yes, I certainly agree with the British Heart Foundation Scotland. Let us be clear. There is a price to be paid for delaying the decision. I have never said...
The Minister for Public Health (Maureen Watt) SNP
I pay tribute to Anne McTaggart. She and her staff have worked tirelessly to bring us to where we are today—debating organ donation in this chamber and raisi...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will the minister take an intervention?
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Maureen Watt SNP
The Government shares the concerns that were expressed in the stage 1 report. In particular, we agree that the appointment of proxies could cause unnecessary...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister give way?
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will the minister give way?
Maureen Watt SNP
There is a particular concern in the case of adults with incapacity. The bill’s provisions could lock such adults into organ donation, because they could not...
Patricia Ferguson Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Maureen Watt SNP
NHS Blood and Transplant, which currently employs the specialist nurses, also raised concerns about the AIP role. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order.
Maureen Watt SNP
I will take an intervention from John Mason.
John Mason SNP
The minister mentioned specific provisions and aspects of the bill. Can she confirm that her opposition to the bill is based on those details and not on the ...
Maureen Watt SNP
I absolutely can. I will come to that. Although some of the issues could be addressed through amendments at stage 2, others could not be.
Drew Smith Lab
Will the minister give way?
Maureen Watt SNP
If the member would just listen, he might understand why we are objecting to the bill. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order.
Maureen Watt SNP
In particular, the authorised investigating persons provisions cannot be separated from the bill, because the proposed model requires AIPs to police the new ...
Anne McTaggart Lab
What is currently in place for that to happen?
Maureen Watt SNP
In terms of proxies? There is nothing about proxies in the system at present. Although the majority of the committee did not support the propositions in the...
Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Maureen Watt SNP
I can confirm today that, in line with the committee’s recommendation, we are starting preparation for a detailed consultation on further methods to increase...
Anne McTaggart Lab
When?
Maureen Watt SNP
If we are re-elected, we will take the matter forward as an early priority in the next session of Parliament and bring forward legislation as appropriate. W...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?