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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 February 2016

04 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Carers (Scotland) Bill
Hepburn, Jamie SNP Cumbernauld and Kilsyth Watch on SPTV

I thank all the members who have contributed to the debate; they have done so with genuine respect for Scotland’s carers. I welcome the insight that has been shown and the helpful and informative contributions that have been made. There is a clear sense of cross-party support for the bill and, more important in many ways, there is a clear sense of collective support for Scotland’s carers.

I thank all those who have been involved in the bill’s progress through Parliament. Many have spoken in debates, served on the various committees that have considered the bill and lodged amendments to the bill. That was often done on behalf of carers or carers representative groups. All those efforts and that engagement have significantly enhanced the bill. It is thanks to that interest, care and attention that the bill takes the form on which the Parliament will vote at decision time.

It would be remiss of me not to thank again all the carer interests that helped to shape the bill. I thank carers for providing their input directly or through their representative organisations. It would also be remiss of me not to pick up on a point that Christina McKelvie made. I was glad to meet Robert Anderson on two occasions to discuss not only the bill but the wider work of the South Lanarkshire Carers Network. His work is a good example of interaction with the legislative process. As Christina McKelvie said, he sadly lost his wife recently. I was aware of that and I put on record my condolences to him.

I agree totally with Rhoda Grant, Nanette Milne and Jackson Carlaw that the engagement in the Parliament has ensured that the bill is better now than it was when it was introduced. I am loth to pick out anyone in particular, but the manner in which Ms Grant and Ms Milne engaged in seeking to amend the bill was particularly co-operative. That emphasises the point that improving the lives of Scotland’s carers is a shared agenda.

It is right that we recognise that Scotland’s carers are integral to our society. They provide vital care and support to their families, friends and neighbours, often in challenging circumstances.

The current legislation, which we seek to change and widen to cover all carers today, requires that a carer must care regularly and substantially and that the person for whom they care must be eligible for a community care assessment before the carer can request a carer’s assessment. We know that few assessments are carried out compared with the number of carers. Even when a carer’s assessment is undertaken, the local authority has discretion about whether to provide the support.

I am pleased that, when the bill is passed today—as I am sure it will be—it will mean that many more people will be able to ask for or be offered an adult carer support plan or a young carer statement as a means of assessing their need for support. Furthermore, the bill widens the definition of a carer so that people who care intermittently—perhaps because the person for whom they care has an illness that does not occur regularly—can also ask for or be offered an adult carer support plan or a young carer statement.

The adult carer support plan or young carer statement will record the outcome of the discussion with the practitioner in relation to identifying the carer’s personal outcomes and needs, as well as any support that the local authority is to provide to meet those needs. The plan or statement can also be of therapeutic value in itself. Many carers feel a sense of loneliness and isolation, and an empathetic assessment can help the carer to feel more supported.

There will be circumstances in which the adult carer support plan or young carer statement needs to be prepared quickly. Many carers care for people with a terminal illness or provide end-of-life care. I was glad that Marie Curie raised that issue directly with our Administration, and we have amended the bill to provide powers for the Scottish ministers to introduce regulations to put in place an expedited process for such carers.

I was also glad to hear voices calling for emergency planning and future planning to be recognised as part of the assessment process. Joan McAlpine spoke of the role of Enable, which I acknowledge as well. It is heartening that Enable clearly expects us to pass the bill, because it has already worked on its emergency planning toolkit. I congratulate it on that endeavour. I am behind the curve a little because, unlike Ms McAlpine, I have not seen that toolkit. However, it is good that Enable is engaged in the process and I look forward to seeing it. That is the kind of creative work that needs to happen throughout Scotland. The Government will be happy to engage in that process.

The bill places a duty on local authorities to provide support if the carer’s identified needs meet the local eligibility criteria. As consideration has to be given in the first instance to whether a carer’s needs can be met by the provision of services that are available generally in the community or services that are provided to the cared-for person, even a carer who has lower-level needs may get some support. That is quite different from the current position.

One general service for which the bill provides is the information and advice service. Each local authority’s information and advice service will provide information and advice about a range of issues that are important to carers, including income maximisation, education and training, advocacy, carers’ rights and health and wellbeing. To take account of carers’ views, the bill also refers to information and advice about emergency care and future planning.

The information and advice service will be available to all. It is important to recognise that, as we have amended the bill to add advice on bereavement services, it will allow former carers who are transitioning to a life without a caring role to take advantage of the support that the service will offer.

An important amendment was made at stage 2 to clarify that local authorities do not need to set up those services from new. Many good third sector information and advice services already exist and we want to encourage local authorities to build on what is already available. They do not need to reinvent the wheel; they can use existing services.

The bill makes specific provision for young carers, in recognition of their particular needs. The definition of young carers has been extended so that young carers who reach the age of 18 and are still at school can continue with a young carer statement, which will help them with the transition to any adult carer support plan while ensuring that there is no gap in provision. The young carer statement will continue to have effect until an adult carer support plan is in place. I have already spoken today about our commitment to ensuring that good guidance is in place to further support the transition arrangements.

There is also the local carer strategy, which has to involve carers and their representative organisations. That is another important step forward.

A number of members have raised issues about resourcing for the provisions in the bill. Maybe I was not listening, but I certainly do not recall the issue having been raised before. It has been suggested that, when the attractiveness of national eligibility criteria was considered, there was some form of financial consideration, but I want to be absolutely clear that that did not factor into my determination of the way forward. That is evidenced by the fact that we have retained the provision that might subsequently allow us to institute national eligibility criteria by regulation.

I am clear that we will resource the provisions of the bill. The financial memorandum sets out £19.4 million in 2017-18, rising to £88.52 million in 2021-22 and on a recurring basis thereafter.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15561, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on the Carers (Scotland) Bill. I invite members who wish to speak in...
The Minister for Sport, Health Improvement and Mental Health (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 3 debate on the Carers (Scotland) Bill. If the Parliament agrees to pass the bill, as I hope it will after the debate, today...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
That appears to contradict the view of the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy, who has put severe limits on what local authorities can d...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I am afraid that I do not agree with that. Given that we are talking about care today, I might reflect on the fact that we are providing a substantial packag...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
There are a large number of people whom I need to thank for their work on the bill over the past weeks and months. I thank our committee clerks and the legis...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I endorse the thanks that have already been given to all those who have helped with the progress of the bill through its parliamentary stages. When I first ...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
It gives me great pleasure to speak in the debate. Just before the debate, I met a group of carers who came to the Parliament with Enable Scotland to celebra...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
It is a privilege for me to be involved in the debate and, over the years, to have met and worked with carers, whether those in my family, those whom I knew ...
Joan McAlpine SNP
I appreciate what Johann Lamont says about care workers and their importance. Since she raises the issue, will she tell us whether she will be encouraging La...
Johann Lamont Lab
Absolutely. There is no doubt about the Labour Party’s commitment to the living wage and to respect for care workers. The point that I would make is that car...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD) LD
I support the bill and I am pleased that it has reached and been amended at stage 3. I hope that it will provide a framework of support for the 745,000 adult...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Mr Hume will have heard my remarks and I hope that he accepts them in good faith. We will monitor the efficacy of the approach that we have legislated for. I...
Jim Hume LD
I appreciate that the minister has put that on the record. I never doubted that he would mention the commitment to review the approach, which he made in good...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
Legislation can take a long time to work its way on to the statute books, but it is just the tip of an iceberg. Underneath it, a host of people and organisat...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
There are almost 800,000 carers in Scotland. Although around 30,000 to 40,000 people stop caring for a loved one each year, the overall number hardly varies,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We move to the closing speeches. I call Jackson Carlaw—I can give you a generous four minutes. 16:47
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I might disappoint you, Presiding Officer, by not fully utilising them.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
That will be fine.
Jackson Carlaw Con
In an afternoon in which we draw all the deliberations on the Carers (Scotland) Bill to a conclusion, I acknowledge the bill’s importance. Throughout its pro...
Rhoda Grant Lab
This has been a good debate. Many of us can draw on our own experiences, as many of us have been carers at one point or another. However, we would not be her...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
On a point of information, that funding will go to health and social care partnerships, which are an integral partner of local government. It is important to...
Rhoda Grant Lab
It will indeed go to health and social care partnerships, but it is going through the health budgets, not the local government budgets, so the health boards ...
Joan McAlpine SNP
We have spent hours and years discussing health and social care integration. The care packages are delivered by people in the community and the joint boards....
Rhoda Grant Lab
Many of the joint boards will not be set up until this April, and the money is going to health boards, not to local government, as the Scottish Government ke...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I thank all the members who have contributed to the debate; they have done so with genuine respect for Scotland’s carers. I welcome the insight that has been...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Given the number of concerns that people have about the resourcing of the bill and the costs of its delivery, if the money that is set out in the financial m...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
As welcome as it was, Ms Grant’s intervention was unnecessary. I will go on to say what I was going to say. I still consider the financial memorandum to be ...
Johann Lamont Lab
If COSLA comes forward with figures that confirm that there is a problem, will the minister give a commitment to look at them and change the financial memora...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Minister, could you begin to wind up, please?
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I can, indeed. What Johann Lamont said seems to be a case of reading between the lines. I have specifically said to COSLA that I am happy to take any figure...