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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 February 2016

04 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Carers (Scotland) Bill
Milne, Nanette Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I endorse the thanks that have already been given to all those who have helped with the progress of the bill through its parliamentary stages.

When I first entered Parliament nearly 13 years ago, I knew almost nothing about carers, even though I and other family members had been involved in looking after loved ones following serious illness or in the terminal stages of life. We did not recognise ourselves as carers; we just wanted to give support to our relatives. Outside agencies were rarely involved.

My grannie, who had severe dementia, lived with us for the last two years of her life This was many years ago, but I remember that, after she died, my mother was a physical and emotional wreck, having been with her day and night, coping with soiled clothes and bedding without even a washing machine.

Thankfully, things are not like that nowadays, although many carers still do not recognise themselves as carers. Help is available, but many carers still do not receive the support that they deserve in carrying out their caring role.

As we know, there are an estimated 745,000 adult carers and 44,000 young carers in Scotland today. The value of the care that they provide is reckoned to be around £10.3 billion per year. Clearly, they are invaluable and indispensable. However, caring can have a detrimental effect on a carer’s health and wellbeing, which can ultimately have an adverse impact on the person being cared for.

At present, local authorities have a duty to assess a carer’s ability to care, and they have the power to provide support where necessary. Health boards can be required to publish a carer information strategy, setting out how carers will be informed of their right to request an assessment. It is accepted, however, that that is not enough, and many carers are still not identified.

The Carers (Scotland) Bill aims to provide better and more consistent support to all carers, both young and adult, by enshrining their rights in law so that they can continue to care, if they so wish, in good health and able to have a life besides caring—and, in the case of young carers, to have a childhood similar to that of their non-carer peers.

Carers and carer organisations warmly welcomed the bill at stage 1, although it was accepted that it would require significant amendment if it was to achieve its laudable aim of improving the lives of the many carers who make such a valuable contribution to our society. Financial provision was at the fore of the concerns that were expressed, because legislation such as the bill cannot be successful unless the entitlements and promises are properly and adequately funded. I am not convinced that that has been fully resolved yet. It could be a hurdle to overcome in providing proper support and services to people who are entitled to them, particularly at a time of significant constraints on council funding. The Parliament and the Government should monitor that extremely carefully in the next parliamentary session.

The amendments that we have approved at stages 2 and 3 have strengthened the bill significantly and I am pleased that they are to the satisfaction of people who are at the coal face of caring.

I will focus briefly on my stage 3 amendments, because they should make a real difference to carers. I have felt strongly for some time that, in many instances, hospital discharge could be better planned if the main carer was identified and discharge planning started as early as possible in the patient’s journey through hospital care. There are many examples of good practice in that respect, but the opposite is all too common and legislation should ensure that good practice is the case everywhere. To illustrate my point, I will give two examples, one of which I mentioned at stage 2 and which shocked me.

At a meeting that I attended—as did Rhoda Grant—to discuss the bill, a carer told us about getting just two hours’ warning of her husband’s discharge from hospital on oxygen, which is a flammable substance. The home was heated by an open gas fire and they had a gas cooker, both of which had to be quickly disconnected before her husband’s arrival home. It took several days until alternative heating and cooking facilities could be installed. That is clearly no way to treat a carer or a cared-for person.

My other example concerns a friend of mine with dementia, who is cared for by her husband. Following admission and treatment for an acute illness, she would have been discharged home without discussion or planning had not their daughter, who lives in another town, refused it because she felt that her father could no longer cope without support. It took considerable time to get a care package in place, which resulted in a classic case of delayed discharge because no thought had been given early on in my friend’s stay in hospital to what might be needed when she went home.

I am pleased to say that there is a happy ending because my friend’s husband is delighted with the support that he now gets at home. Moreover, a few days of care home respite is provided regularly, which allows him to plan to have a couple of days away from his caring role when he needs them. He now feels that he can cope much better and his own health is no longer being put at risk because he can look forward to regular short breaks when he can resume a more normal life.

Those are only two examples but they are replicated throughout the country. The bill that I hope we will pass today could make for a better life for many people who might otherwise suffer adverse effects from being carers and, indeed, who might have to curtail their caring roles because of the impact on their health and wellbeing. Time will tell whether the Carers (Scotland) Bill has the desired effect of improving the lives of young and adult carers. I hope that it will do so. It might not yet be perfect but, by and large, it has the approval of carer organisations. I also hope that continuing work between them and the minister in preparing regulations and guidance will refine its provisions further.

The Scottish Conservatives appreciate the help and co-operation that we have received from the minister and his officials. We will be happy to vote for the Carers (Scotland) Bill at decision time.

16:21  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15561, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on the Carers (Scotland) Bill. I invite members who wish to speak in...
The Minister for Sport, Health Improvement and Mental Health (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 3 debate on the Carers (Scotland) Bill. If the Parliament agrees to pass the bill, as I hope it will after the debate, today...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
That appears to contradict the view of the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy, who has put severe limits on what local authorities can d...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I am afraid that I do not agree with that. Given that we are talking about care today, I might reflect on the fact that we are providing a substantial packag...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
There are a large number of people whom I need to thank for their work on the bill over the past weeks and months. I thank our committee clerks and the legis...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I endorse the thanks that have already been given to all those who have helped with the progress of the bill through its parliamentary stages. When I first ...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
It gives me great pleasure to speak in the debate. Just before the debate, I met a group of carers who came to the Parliament with Enable Scotland to celebra...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
It is a privilege for me to be involved in the debate and, over the years, to have met and worked with carers, whether those in my family, those whom I knew ...
Joan McAlpine SNP
I appreciate what Johann Lamont says about care workers and their importance. Since she raises the issue, will she tell us whether she will be encouraging La...
Johann Lamont Lab
Absolutely. There is no doubt about the Labour Party’s commitment to the living wage and to respect for care workers. The point that I would make is that car...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD) LD
I support the bill and I am pleased that it has reached and been amended at stage 3. I hope that it will provide a framework of support for the 745,000 adult...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Mr Hume will have heard my remarks and I hope that he accepts them in good faith. We will monitor the efficacy of the approach that we have legislated for. I...
Jim Hume LD
I appreciate that the minister has put that on the record. I never doubted that he would mention the commitment to review the approach, which he made in good...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
Legislation can take a long time to work its way on to the statute books, but it is just the tip of an iceberg. Underneath it, a host of people and organisat...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
There are almost 800,000 carers in Scotland. Although around 30,000 to 40,000 people stop caring for a loved one each year, the overall number hardly varies,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We move to the closing speeches. I call Jackson Carlaw—I can give you a generous four minutes. 16:47
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I might disappoint you, Presiding Officer, by not fully utilising them.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
That will be fine.
Jackson Carlaw Con
In an afternoon in which we draw all the deliberations on the Carers (Scotland) Bill to a conclusion, I acknowledge the bill’s importance. Throughout its pro...
Rhoda Grant Lab
This has been a good debate. Many of us can draw on our own experiences, as many of us have been carers at one point or another. However, we would not be her...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
On a point of information, that funding will go to health and social care partnerships, which are an integral partner of local government. It is important to...
Rhoda Grant Lab
It will indeed go to health and social care partnerships, but it is going through the health budgets, not the local government budgets, so the health boards ...
Joan McAlpine SNP
We have spent hours and years discussing health and social care integration. The care packages are delivered by people in the community and the joint boards....
Rhoda Grant Lab
Many of the joint boards will not be set up until this April, and the money is going to health boards, not to local government, as the Scottish Government ke...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I thank all the members who have contributed to the debate; they have done so with genuine respect for Scotland’s carers. I welcome the insight that has been...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Given the number of concerns that people have about the resourcing of the bill and the costs of its delivery, if the money that is set out in the financial m...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
As welcome as it was, Ms Grant’s intervention was unnecessary. I will go on to say what I was going to say. I still consider the financial memorandum to be ...
Johann Lamont Lab
If COSLA comes forward with figures that confirm that there is a problem, will the minister give a commitment to look at them and change the financial memora...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Minister, could you begin to wind up, please?
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I can, indeed. What Johann Lamont said seems to be a case of reading between the lines. I have specifically said to COSLA that I am happy to take any figure...