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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 February 2016

04 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Carers (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Hepburn, Jamie SNP Cumbernauld and Kilsyth Watch on SPTV

I thank Ms Grant for lodging these amendments. I recognise that future care planning is just as important as emergency care planning to a carer’s health and wellbeing. Carers might not be able to provide care in the long term, perhaps as a result of illness, old age or a change in circumstances, including the circumstances that members have touched on in which an elderly person, aware that they will pass on, is concerned about the future arrangements for their loved one.

The knowledge that future care plans are in place for a time when the carer can no longer care can bring peace of mind. Amendments 4 and 8 therefore make provision in sections 8 and 13 that the adult carer support plan and the young carer statement must contain information about whether the adult or young carer has arrangements in place for the future care of the cared-for person. On that basis, I am delighted to support the amendments, which mirror existing provisions in the bill on emergency care planning,

On amendments 24 and 27, in Rhoda Grant’s name, on bereavement support, it is difficult and even devastating when the carer’s role comes to an end. The focus of the bill is on assessing need and providing support to current carers and those who intend to care in the near future. The bill takes a personal outcomes approach to assessment of need for, and provision of, support. Therefore, if a carer anticipates a need for bereavement support in advance of the demise of the cared-for person—as can often be the case, depending on circumstances—that can be considered as part of the adult carer support plan or the young carer statement process. That could be appropriate in circumstances in which the cared-for person has a terminal illness, for example.

The carer may also be affected by the prospect of the cared-for person’s death such that their own health and wellbeing suffer and they cannot care. Counselling before the cared-for person’s death could help the carer to prepare and so be in a better position to provide care while the cared-for person is still alive. Such support can already be considered in the context of the adult carer support plan and young carer statement under the bill, so on that basis I do not believe that amendments 24 and 27 are necessary.

There is also an issue in respect of the definition of the term “carer”. Section 1 defines a carer as

“an individual who provides or intends to provide care for another individual (the ‘cared-for’ person)”.

Rhoda Grant’s amendments 24 and 27 are intended to introduce to the assessment process the provision of information and advice on support that is available to former carers after bereavement. That is not possible under the current definition of carer, because the carer ceases to be a carer when the cared-for person dies. To accept the amendments we would need to widen the definition of carer, which would fundamentally change the nature and scope of the bill, and its focus, from the assessment of the needs of and provision of support to the carer so that the carer can sustain the caring role, to include assessment of need and provision of support to people who are no longer carers.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Carers (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with the amendments, members should have the bill as amended at st...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Unusually, I am not sure whether your microphone is on. I am having considerable difficulty hearing you, which might ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Thank you, Mr Carlaw. I will take the muffler off my microphone; apparently I am usually very loud. I will try to speak more into the microphone, and perhaps...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 1 is on the meaning of “young carer”. Amendment 21, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is the only amendment in the group.
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I would never have dreamed of putting a muffler on your microphone. Amendment 21 was lodged because of concerns from the Scott...
The Minister for Sport, Health Improvement and Mental Health (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
The definition of young carer that is presently on the face of the bill aligns with the named person service provisions as set out in the Children and Young ...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Given the reassurances that regulations will cover the point that amendment 21 would deal with, I would like to withdraw it. Amendment 21, by agreement, wit...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 2 is on the exercise of functions and taking account of equalities matters. Amendment 1, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is grouped with amendments 3, 5, 7...
Rhoda Grant Lab
These amendments arose from evidence about the needs of carers from different ethnic backgrounds. The way in which support is provided to carers has sometime...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I thank Ms Grant for lodging the amendments. As she said, we worked together between stages 2 and 3 to ensure that the amendments reinforce the importance of...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I thank the minister for those comments. These amendments are very important. Amendment 1 agreed to.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 3 is on the preparation of adult carer support plans and young carer statements in relation to the delegation of functions. Amendment 22, in the name o...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Amendments 22 and 25 make it possible for a local authority to allow a voluntary organisation or indeed any other organisation to complete the adult carer su...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I fully support the intention behind the amendments. I see great merit in carer centres and other third sector organisations being involved in the preparatio...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I have listened carefully to what the minister has said. Given his reassurance that section 25 covers the matter, I seek leave to withdraw amendment 22. Ame...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
The next group of amendments concerns timescales for the preparation of adult carer support plans and young carer statements. Amendment 2, in the name of the...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Amendments 2 and 6 are designed to provide absolute clarity about our intentions: they replace “may” with “must” in sections 6A and 11A, so that those sectio...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I welcome the Government’s amendments, which strengthen the wording in the bill. My amendments 23 and 26 make it clear that the Scottish Government can set t...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I thank Rhoda Grant for her question, which is a fair one. I re-emphasise the point that I made in my opening remarks, that, since the bill was first present...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 5 is on information about future arrangements, including bereavement support. Amendment 4, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is grouped with amendments 24, 8...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Amendments 4 and 8 seek to allow for the planning statement to contain information on the future care arrangements for a cared-for person. We will all have c...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I speak in support of amendments 14, 24 and 27. When a carer loses a loved one or someone to whom they have become emotionally attached through caring for th...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
I want to highlight the importance of carers centres in providing continued support to carers who have suffered bereavement. Many of those centres, including...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I thank Ms Grant for lodging these amendments. I recognise that future care planning is just as important as emergency care planning to a carer’s health and ...
Johann Lamont Lab
Does the minister recognise that there is a continuum for a person who has cared for, cares for and then loses someone? Because they are living with the cons...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I absolutely agree with the point that Johann Lamont has made. I suppose that my point is that we are not just expressing sentiments, but are making the law....
Rhoda Grant Lab
I am listening carefully to what the minister is saying. Does he think that it would be appropriate to put in place guidance for local authorities to ensure ...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Again, I am quite happy to reflect on that suggestion. It is essential that we have good guidance that covers all eventualities. I have clearly made the poin...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I listened carefully to what the minister said about amendments 24 and 27, as I know that we are all concerned about the support that carers get when they fa...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 6 is on local eligibility criteria: role of the Scottish ministers. Amendment 28, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is grouped with amendments 29 to 31. I po...