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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 February 2016

04 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Carers (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Hepburn, Jamie SNP Cumbernauld and Kilsyth Watch on SPTV

I fully support the intention behind the amendments. I see great merit in carer centres and other third sector organisations being involved in the preparation of adult carer support plans and young carer statements. Rhoda Grant set out a couple of examples of why that might be appropriate. It should be said that such organisations are already doing a good job of carrying out carers assessments in some areas. I should of course add that local authorities more often than not do a good job in relation to those processes, too.

Having said that I support the intention behind the amendments, I have to say that there is no need for them. That is because section 35, “Assistance by voluntary organisations etc”, already allows local authorities to make arrangements with organisations that can assist with the carrying out of those functions. It does that by way of an amendment to section 4 of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968. That provision allows local authorities to make arrangements with voluntary organisations, other people or other local authorities to assist in the performance of listed functions. Section 35 of the bill amends the list of functions in section 4 of the 1968 act in order to cover functions under parts 2 and 6 of this bill, including the preparation of adult carer support plans and young carer statements.

Crucially—this is why I oppose the amendments and hope that Rhoda Grant will withdraw them—amendments 22 and 25 would cast doubt on a local authority’s ability to make similar arrangements with the third sector in relation to other functions under the bill, or, indeed, other social care functions. For example, the responsible local authority might want the third sector to be involved in the establishment and maintenance of an information and advice service and the provision of support to carers. If we emphasise the third sector’s role in one area alone, that could lead to a danger of a legal interpretation that concluded that that was the only area in which the Parliament wanted functions to be delegated to the third sector. I do not believe that that is the outcome that Rhoda Grant hoped for.

I certainly appreciate that there are concerns about delegation and conflicts of interests and about whether the third sector can offer the self-directed support options and so on. It is my intention to issue comprehensive guidance on the matter. The national carers organisations, local authorities, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and others will, of course, be involved in the production of the guidance.

Having said that I support the intention behind the amendments, I hope that Rhoda Grant will recognise the potential dangers behind the amendments, accept the concerns that I have set out and agree to withdraw amendment 22 and not move amendment 25.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Carers (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with the amendments, members should have the bill as amended at st...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Unusually, I am not sure whether your microphone is on. I am having considerable difficulty hearing you, which might ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Thank you, Mr Carlaw. I will take the muffler off my microphone; apparently I am usually very loud. I will try to speak more into the microphone, and perhaps...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 1 is on the meaning of “young carer”. Amendment 21, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is the only amendment in the group.
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I would never have dreamed of putting a muffler on your microphone. Amendment 21 was lodged because of concerns from the Scott...
The Minister for Sport, Health Improvement and Mental Health (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
The definition of young carer that is presently on the face of the bill aligns with the named person service provisions as set out in the Children and Young ...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Given the reassurances that regulations will cover the point that amendment 21 would deal with, I would like to withdraw it. Amendment 21, by agreement, wit...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 2 is on the exercise of functions and taking account of equalities matters. Amendment 1, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is grouped with amendments 3, 5, 7...
Rhoda Grant Lab
These amendments arose from evidence about the needs of carers from different ethnic backgrounds. The way in which support is provided to carers has sometime...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I thank Ms Grant for lodging the amendments. As she said, we worked together between stages 2 and 3 to ensure that the amendments reinforce the importance of...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I thank the minister for those comments. These amendments are very important. Amendment 1 agreed to.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 3 is on the preparation of adult carer support plans and young carer statements in relation to the delegation of functions. Amendment 22, in the name o...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Amendments 22 and 25 make it possible for a local authority to allow a voluntary organisation or indeed any other organisation to complete the adult carer su...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I fully support the intention behind the amendments. I see great merit in carer centres and other third sector organisations being involved in the preparatio...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I have listened carefully to what the minister has said. Given his reassurance that section 25 covers the matter, I seek leave to withdraw amendment 22. Ame...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
The next group of amendments concerns timescales for the preparation of adult carer support plans and young carer statements. Amendment 2, in the name of the...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Amendments 2 and 6 are designed to provide absolute clarity about our intentions: they replace “may” with “must” in sections 6A and 11A, so that those sectio...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I welcome the Government’s amendments, which strengthen the wording in the bill. My amendments 23 and 26 make it clear that the Scottish Government can set t...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I thank Rhoda Grant for her question, which is a fair one. I re-emphasise the point that I made in my opening remarks, that, since the bill was first present...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 5 is on information about future arrangements, including bereavement support. Amendment 4, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is grouped with amendments 24, 8...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Amendments 4 and 8 seek to allow for the planning statement to contain information on the future care arrangements for a cared-for person. We will all have c...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I speak in support of amendments 14, 24 and 27. When a carer loses a loved one or someone to whom they have become emotionally attached through caring for th...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
I want to highlight the importance of carers centres in providing continued support to carers who have suffered bereavement. Many of those centres, including...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I thank Ms Grant for lodging these amendments. I recognise that future care planning is just as important as emergency care planning to a carer’s health and ...
Johann Lamont Lab
Does the minister recognise that there is a continuum for a person who has cared for, cares for and then loses someone? Because they are living with the cons...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I absolutely agree with the point that Johann Lamont has made. I suppose that my point is that we are not just expressing sentiments, but are making the law....
Rhoda Grant Lab
I am listening carefully to what the minister is saying. Does he think that it would be appropriate to put in place guidance for local authorities to ensure ...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Again, I am quite happy to reflect on that suggestion. It is essential that we have good guidance that covers all eventualities. I have clearly made the poin...
Rhoda Grant Lab
I listened carefully to what the minister said about amendments 24 and 27, as I know that we are all concerned about the support that carers get when they fa...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Group 6 is on local eligibility criteria: role of the Scottish ministers. Amendment 28, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is grouped with amendments 29 to 31. I po...