Committee
Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee 27 January 2016
27 Jan 2016 · S4 · Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee
Item of business
Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
It is clear that new opportunities will flow from the guidance that is envisaged for this part of the bill, and it is to be hoped that owners and communities will take it seriously and work with it in the spirit that is intended. However, the content of the guidance is not explicit. The bill simply states that “The Scottish Ministers must issue guidance about engaging”, but it does not specify to what end. Furthermore, it is clear that it would be easy for many to engage and then to ignore matters arising from that engagement. Having guidance on engagement implies that more is required of an owner than simply providing information to a community, otherwise section 37 would simply provide for that. The requirement goes further, but it is not clear how far it goes. In my view, the purpose of meaningful engagement would be to try to seek a measure of agreement between the owner and the community on key strategic land use and management questions, and maybe even on any questions of ownership of the land itself that might flow out of the engagement process. I believe that it is important to make it clear in the bill that engagement is required not just for its own sake but with the purpose of seeking to secure agreement on key land use and management issues. I hope that my amendment 13, which seeks to make that clear, will help to raise the bar and clarify what is intended in that respect. To be clear, the seeking of agreement means not that agreement must be secured but that an honest attempt should be made. Clarity would help to shape the guidance and make its purpose much clearer to all involved. I look forward to hearing what the minister has to say on amendment 13. With regard to my amendment 102, the policy memorandum states that the guidance “will apply to all land owners”. However, the wording of the bill does not specify that in depth.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Agenda item 7 is the second day of consideration of amendments to the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill. We will pick up where we left off last week with part 3 of...
The Convener
SNP
We come to the group on the power of the keeper of the Registers of Scotland to request information and the procedure for regulation. Amendment 31, in the na...
The Minister for Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform (Aileen McLeod)
SNP
Section 36 inserts into the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Act 2012 new section 48A, which enables regulations to be made enabling the keeper of the Regist...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 36, in the name of Graeme Dey, has already been debated with amendment 103. I ask Graeme Dey whether he wishes to move his amendment.
Graeme Dey
SNP
My amendment would have deleted section 36, but given that we have just approved a series of amendments to section 36 and that the Scottish Government intend...
The Convener
SNP
We move to group 2, on guidance on engaging communities in decisions relating to land: purpose of engagement, content of guidance etc. Amendment 13, in the n...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
It is clear that new opportunities will flow from the guidance that is envisaged for this part of the bill, and it is to be hoped that owners and communities...
The Convener
SNP
Pardon me—
Sarah Boyack
Lab
Sorry, have I got that wrong? It is amendment 108. I am speaking about the guidance on engaging communities in decisions, as set out in the briefing paper th...
The Convener
SNP
That is okay, but you said amendment 102.
Sarah Boyack
Lab
Sorry—I meant amendment 108. From the earlier discussion members will have been able to tell that my voice is going, but clearly it must be more than that. T...
Aileen McLeod
SNP
In drawing up the guidance, ministers will consult a wide range of stakeholders, and the guidance will define the different sorts of engagement that will be ...
Michael Russell
SNP
I heard what the minister said and I am broadly content with amendment 37—with a caveat, as she will expect, about the term “relevant human rights” in propos...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I welcome the clarity that the minister provided on amendment 108 because at first glance it seemed to have merit, but I am content with what I have heard.
Alex Fergusson
Con
I am sorry to take away from the air of consensus that there seems to be here, but I have concerns about this group of amendments. I share the minister’s res...
The Convener
SNP
I ask the minister to respond to that point before Sarah Boyack winds up.
Aileen McLeod
SNP
Do you want me to comment on some of the other points that have been raised or just specifically Mr Fergusson’s point?
The Convener
SNP
Will you comment on Alex Fergusson’s point?
Aileen McLeod
SNP
I say to Mr Fergusson that the things that we are adding do not move away from the intention of what we are trying to do in part 5 of the bill to further sus...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you for that, minister. I ask Sarah Boyack to wind up and say whether she wishes to press or withdraw amendment 13.
Sarah Boyack
Lab
We have had a useful debate. To be clear, amendment 13 seeks the community’s agreement; it does not say that that must be secured—that would be a higher bar ...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 13 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Against Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Fergusson, ...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 2, Against 7, Abstentions 0. Amendment 13 disagreed to. Amendment 37 moved—Aileen McLeod.
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 37 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Gibson, Rob (Caithn...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 8, Against 1, Abstentions 0. Amendment 37 agreed to. Amendment 81 not moved. Amendment 38 moved—Aileen McLeod.
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 38 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Gibson, Rob (Caithn...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 8, Against 1, Abstentions 0. Amendment 38 agreed to. Amendment 108 not moved. Amendment 39 moved—Aileen McLeod—and agre...