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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 December 2015

10 Dec 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill

The absence of rancour in the debate and the support that exists across the chamber for the bill reflect well on the work that has been done by the members of the Justice Committee, my colleague Patricia Ferguson and those who gave evidence to the committee at stages 1 and 2.

We do well to remember that some 5,000 deaths a year are reviewed by the authorities and that somewhere short of 60 of them are subject to fatal accident inquiries. We should remember that the FAI is designed, quite properly, to determine the circumstances of a death, not to apportion blame. However, as John Finnie indicated, an FAI can be extremely difficult and upsetting for family members, close friends and those who were involved in the circumstances surrounding a death. They hear details—often for the first time—that have implications for how they might respond to the evidence.

In examining the circumstances of a death, it is right that a sheriff should act in a thorough and proper manner to examine all the circumstances of the death, and that can sometimes be extremely harrowing.

In those circumstances, it is good to know that general agreement has been achieved on some important elements. The evidence of the British Medical Association, the Scottish Association for Mental Health, the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland and others has helped to point the Parliament in a direction that will ensure that a fatal accident inquiry will not be held in all circumstances in which someone who faced mental health conditions died.

The opportunity for the Crown to intervene in the appropriate circumstances to decide on a fatal accident inquiry is appropriate and commensurate with the circumstances that we face annually. I have confidence that is based on experience that the Procurator Fiscal Service has the ability to make the appropriate decisions in most circumstances.

Elaine Murray’s amendments provided value to the discussion in enabling the ventilating of all the issues. I am happy that, at the end of the process, we have come to a decision that I certainly feel comfortable with.

The Government’s agreement to include representation from trade unions and staff associations in relation to relevant deaths while people were engaged in employment is a very helpful way forward in advising how we should deal with them.

The other important element has been establishing grounds for the investigation of deaths of citizens that occurred abroad. That subject has caused a great deal of upset for many families in Scotland to date. Seeing some form of solution is important and should give comfort to many relatives.

I am disappointed that amendment 1, in the name of Patricia Ferguson, which was an attempt to provide some kind of equality of representation, was rejected. The issue has been fully ventilated, and I do not intend to go into the circumstances again, but I have certainly been present when procurators fiscal have made it clear to families that they were there to represent the public interest, not the families’ concerns. Families have found that very difficult to understand. I implore the minister to ensure that the family liaison charter is seen as very valuable guidance for the fiscal service in future so that its culture can take on board the changes in the responsibilities that we expect of it in dealing with fatal accident inquiries.

The minister’s reference to the duties of coroners in England and Wales did not assist the debate. That was largely irrelevant, as the system in Scotland has always been different and families have always had a more positive experience here. We should invest in those circumstances rather than rely on the comfort that it is worse elsewhere. I am not particularly interested in how the matter is dealt with in other jurisdictions, unless that advises us of ways to improve ours.

To return to Patricia Ferguson’s amendments, I hope that the Government will bear that in mind. If experience tells us that we have gone in the wrong direction, and if we find that relatives who meet the new circumstances are challenged, as I suspect they will be, we must make an early change to make legal aid the norm.

The presence of lawyers at fatal accident inquiries does not necessarily mean the introduction of new conflicts. If the nature of fatal accident inquiries and the purpose of holding them are made clear to lawyers—if it is made clear that they are there to determine the facts and not to engage in legal exchanges—I am sure that we can find a more productive way of going forward.

In conclusion, I make it clear that we support the principles behind the bill and will vote in support of it. I am grateful to the minister for his approach in dealing with many of the questions and exchanges that have occurred during stages 1 to 3.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15113, in the name of Paul Wheelhouse, on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotl...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Inquiries into Fat...
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
I am delighted to open this stage 3 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. The law relating to the investigation...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
As we have heard, fatal accident inquiries into the circumstances of deaths are undertaken in the public interest in order to determine the time, place and c...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I acknowledge Patricia Ferguson’s significant involvement in this legislative process following the withdrawal of her own bill, and her co-operation with the...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
It has been said by Margaret Mitchell and in other contributions that, somehow, this has not been a proper democratic process. However, it has been. A Govern...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Point made. Thank you very much.
Margaret Mitchell Con
The point is that the SNP has a majority on seven out of nine subject committees in the—
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
What about Westminster?
Margaret Mitchell Con
I accept Ms Grahame’s sedentary remark, but there are checks and balances in the Westminster Government; indeed, that has been proved quite recently by decis...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP
Will Margaret Mitchell give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
The member is just closing.
Margaret Mitchell Con
There is no doubt that individuals who are detained under mental health legislation are among the most vulnerable people in society, but today the SNP Govern...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We now move to the open debate. 16:22
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I have already made the point, but I will make it again: it is very important that members understand the strength of this Parliament, particularly in respec...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
This afternoon, when we pass the bill—as we will, with Labour support—we will make some significant changes to the FAI system. However, I cannot help but obs...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
The legislation that governs the fatal accident inquiry system is nearly 40 years old, and it has been six years since Lord Cullen reported on his review int...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I hear rumblings about the Scottish National Party’s overall majority. For eight years in here, we had a Labour-Liberal coalition majority, with a majority o...
Elaine Murray Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Christine Grahame SNP
No, I am going to proceed, because I have heard enough. We had eight years of that approach. I very much welcome the legislation and commend the work of Jus...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
Article 2 of the European convention on human rights creates a right to life and, with it, the duty on the state to investigate the loss of life. That is a d...
Christine Grahame SNP
There will not be any aeroplanes.
John Finnie Ind
Christine Grahame is right that there will not be any aeroplanes. Members’ experiences are all different. I have experience of an FAI into a death in custod...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the stage 3 debate on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill and I share in the tributes that have already been p...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
The absence of rancour in the debate and the support that exists across the chamber for the bill reflect well on the work that has been done by the members o...
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
I call Paul Wheelhouse to wind up the debate. I can give you eight minutes, Mr Wheelhouse. 16:54
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
I record my thanks to members for their contributions to the debate. Before I go through the detail, it is important to address the point that Graeme Pearso...
Christine Grahame SNP
I know that the minister is about to run out of time, but before he does, will he answer my question about the death of service personnel in Scotland, for wh...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
On whether the legislation in relation to military FAIs will be retrospective, the answer is no. A discretionary FAI will have been considered at the time of...