Committee
Health and Sport Committee 26 January 2016
26 Jan 2016 · S4 · Health and Sport Committee
Item of business
Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc and Care) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Amendment 17 in Malcolm Chisholm’s name would require that “the responsible person must ask the ... person” who has been affected by an unintended or unexpected incident that causes harm “whether” they wish “the duty of candour procedure to apply to” them. It might not always be in the best interests of the individual to be told about what has happened, and organisations will be required to consider that carefully and to ensure that they do not take a one-size-fits-all approach to disclosing information. Additionally, not everyone will wish to know the details of what has happened: their not knowing should always be an option. The Scottish Government’s guidance development group will consider such issues as part of its remit in taking forward implementation of the bill. Although I acknowledge that the procedure should, as far as possible, take into account the preferences of those who have been affected by unintended or unexpected incidents, an undesirable effect of amendment 17 might be that, when an affected person does not want to be told about the incident, the wider duty of candour procedure might not apply. We would still want reporting and learning to take place in order to prevent the same type of incident happening again. As members will be aware, under the bill the duty of candour procedure is a series of steps that are to be taken by the responsible person. Section 22 of the bill leaves the detailed steps of that procedure to be set out in regulations. Under section 22(2)(a), the regulations may make provision about “the notification to be given by the relevant person” who is affected, and section 22(2)(e) will allow the regulations to provide detail in “an account of the incident“ that is to be given. I intend that the regulations that will be made under section 22, which will set out the duty of candour procedure, will reflect the aim of amendment 17, to the extent that the purpose is to provide an affected person with an opportunity to decline to be told about what had gone wrong. However, it is important that in such cases the wider duty of candour procedure continues to apply to the responsible person so that lessons can be learned from such incidents even when someone does not want to know what happened. Having set out that intention, I ask Malcolm Chisholm to seek to withdraw amendment 17.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Lab
Agenda item 4 is day 2 of stage 2 of the Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc and Care) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome the Minister for Public Health, Maureen Watt; Dan...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
Thank you.
The Convener
Lab
Members should note that part of the way through the debate I will pause proceedings to enable a change of Government officials. I shall introduce the other ...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 3, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendment 4.
The Minister for Public Health (Maureen Watt)
SNP
Amendments 3 and 4 relate to outcomes of incidents that trigger the duty of candour procedure. On amendment 3—which addresses an issue that was raised by No...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 11, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is grouped with amendment 12.
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
The bill outlines the use of the duty of candour in quite extreme circumstances, and I think that the previous amendments were helpful in highlighting just h...
Maureen Watt
SNP
Amendments 11 and 12 would require that “unintended or unexpected incidents” that “did not or could not have resulted in” harm or injury be reported to a p...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
I do not understand what the minister is trying to say. She stipulated the circumstances in which the duty of candour would apply as death or real harm. Thos...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 17, in the name of Malcolm Chisholm, is in a group on its own.
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
I am a strong supporter of the duty of candour, but various concerns about it have been expressed by clinicians. The particular concern that amendment 17 pic...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I support Malcolm Chisholm’s amendment 17. I was particularly struck by the evidence that we received about the procedure in England. Having grown up through...
Maureen Watt
SNP
Amendment 17 in Malcolm Chisholm’s name would require that “the responsible person must ask the ... person” who has been affected by an unintended or unexp...
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
I thank the minister for that explanation. I am to an extent unsure whether she really is objecting to the substance of amendment 17. She says that she will ...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 6, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 7, 8, 5, 9 and 10.
Maureen Watt
SNP
The amendments make changes to the interpretation section for part 2. Amendment 6 aims to assist with the interpretation of “provide” by adding a definition ...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 18, in the name of Mary Scanlon, is grouped with amendments 21 to 23 and 25.
Mary Scanlon
Con
I am grateful for the committee’s time in considering my amendments. I also thank the clerks for assisting me with the amendments. Over my years as an MSP, ...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP)
SNP
I thank Mary Scanlon for lodging her amendments. There are standards of professional conduct for people who are registered to provide care and, if they fail ...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
Nobody who listened to Mary Scanlon could help but be horrified by the experience that she described. Sadly, it is all too common in some care homes—we have ...
Richard Lyle
SNP
I would be concerned if what Mary Scanlon described happened in any care home. However, there are many care staff in many care homes who deliver an excellent...
Nanette Milne
Con
I hear what Richard Lyle says; we would all agree that there is excellent care in many cases. Nonetheless, there are cases such as the one that Mary Scanlon ...
Maureen Watt
SNP
The care worker and care provider offences in part 3 are committed when there is ill treatment or wilful neglect of individuals who are in receipt of care. A...
Mary Scanlon
Con
I appreciate Dennis Robertson’s point. The care workers would be registered with the Scottish Social Services Council. Until a few weeks ago, one of them was...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 19, in the name of Mary Scanlon, is grouped with amendments 20, 24 and 26.
Mary Scanlon
Con
My comments on the amendments follow on from the good point that Dennis Robertson made about professional conduct. I have described the poor experience of ca...
Maureen Watt
SNP
Amendments 19 and 24, in the name of Mary Scanlon, would remove the option for ill treatment and wilful neglect offences to be tried under the summary proced...
Mary Scanlon
Con
I would obviously be concerned if fewer cases were getting to court as a result of my amendments, because that is certainly not my intention. However, I have...
The Convener
Lab
I thank the officials for their attendance and suspend the meeting to enable new officials to join the minister. 10:16 Meeting suspended. 10:19 On resuming—
The Convener
Lab
I welcome the officials from the Scottish Government bill team who are now accompanying the minister—Angela Bonomy, sensory impairment national delivery supp...