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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 26 January 2016

26 Jan 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Trade Union Bill

It was clear from that previous debate that an overwhelming majority of members in the Parliament are opposed to the bill. The bill was referred to the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee, which raised serious concerns about it and its impact on Scotland. I believe that the vast majority of members of the Parliament accept those concerns and will, like Labour, support the Government motion at decision time today.

In our previous debate, the cabinet secretary set out the reasons why she believed that the provisions of the bill and its impact on Scotland, Scottish workers, Scottish businesses and Scottish services meant that a legislative consent motion was necessary. She was right to refer to the way in which regulations are to be made and the impact on devolved services and public bodies. To back up her case, she referenced the Scottish Agricultural Wages Board and, critically, she mentioned the potential breach of human rights legislation.

In that debate, Labour members pointed to the impact on the NHS, local government, the police, the fire service, transport, the civil service and all other devolved responsibilities. The cabinet secretary said:

“Ultimately, it will be for the parliamentary authorities to decide on the need for a consent motion, but the political will of the Government is clear. In my view, it is entirely right that the Parliament has the opportunity to vote on proposed legislation that I believe is aggressive, regressive and an unwarranted ideological attack on workers’ rights.”

I agreed with that analysis.

The cabinet secretary also said in that speech:

“I have asked our legal advisers to explore several possible bases for a legislative consent memorandum and motion.”—[Official Report, 10 November 2015; c 23, 22.]

However, the Presiding Officer rejected that motion, and that ruling prevents the Parliament from acting. That was wrong in process and in the decision made, but we are where we are and we have to deal with the hand we have been dealt. Therefore, rather than say “If only this could happen or that had happened” or “If only we had this power or that power,” we should use the powers and procedures that are available to us to ensure that the Parliament’s will is respected and that we have such a debate and vote.

In the previous debate, the cabinet secretary said that she had taken legal advice. I presume that the Government lawyers approved the LCM and could justify it. I contend that that was on the basis that facility time, check-off, the impact on the administration of services, the contracts of employees and competition law all impinge on the Scottish ministers’ executive competence and duties. There is little doubt in my mind that they do that but, despite all that, the LCM approach was rejected.

In that debate, the cabinet secretary also said that it was the first time that the Scottish Government and UK Government had disagreed on the need for an LCM. Given what is happening on the devolution of powers, it may be the first time but I question whether will be the last. We have to do something about that. Should the situation arise again, the Parliament must have the power to deal with it and put the power in the hands of its democratically elected members.

Given the new powers that we are going to get, such disputes are likely to arise more frequently, but we should not leave the decision in the office of the Presiding Officer, whoever he or she is, and leave them exposed, as they would have to put their name to such a ruling. Therefore, we propose that, where there is disagreement between the two Parliaments on whether a legislative consent motion is required, or where any member of this Parliament believes that one is required, members should have the right to lodge such a motion and have the Parliament vote on it. That would put power into the hands of MSPs and increase the democracy and accountability of the Parliament.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15414, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on the Trade Union Bill. I call on Roseanna Cunningham to sp...
The Cabinet Secretary for Fair Work, Skills and Training (Roseanna Cunningham) SNP
I thank the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee and its convener, Bruce Crawford, for its swift consideration of the legislation and the memorandum that wa...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Neil Findlay to speak to and move amendment S4M-15414.1. 14:57
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I declare an interest, in that I am a member of Unite the union, the Educational Institute of Scotland and the West Lothian Trade Union Council. I also chair...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Stick to parliamentary language, please, Mr Findlay.
Neil Findlay Lab
It was clear from that previous debate that an overwhelming majority of members in the Parliament are opposed to the bill. The bill was referred to the Devol...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Would it not be easier if we had all the powers in this Parliament so that we did not have to rely on LCMs?
Neil Findlay Lab
Mr Stewart makes my case for me: he says, “If only this, if only that.” The reality is that we have the opportunity to take practical steps that will prevent...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will Mr Findlay give way?
Neil Findlay Lab
No. The cabinet secretary is right to work with us on that; I am just a bit disappointed that Mr Stewart appears not to want to go down that route. My colle...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The Trade Union Bill gives effect to manifesto commitments that the Conservative Party made in advance of being elected as the majority Government of the Uni...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Alex Johnstone Con
No—I will not be taking interventions. It is not unreasonable to require an opt-in process for union political donations. Often, members are unaware that th...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Alex Johnstone Con
No, thank you. Taken together, the proposed measures are not an unreasonable addition to the provisions that previous Governments put in place to facilitate...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We move to the open debate. I call Bruce Crawford to speak on behalf of the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee. 15:12
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak in my capacity as the convener of the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee. As members are aware, the Scott...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will Bruce Crawford respond to the point that I made about what happens in principle when the two Parliaments disagree and how we can bring forward a procedu...
Bruce Crawford SNP
I am speaking on behalf of the Devolution (Further Powers) Committee as its convener. That point was not subject to any of the processes that we went through...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I wish to raise a point of order that concerns chapter 12 of standing orders, in so far as it relates to the operatio...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I thank Mr Stevenson for the advance warning of his point of order. He is correct that the Parliament cannot compel a committee to take any particular course...
Margaret McDougall (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I express my disappointment that, on the day that the Welsh Assembly is debating a legislative consent motion that will restrict the imposition of the anti-t...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Margaret McDougall Lab
I have just started. Perhaps I will take an intervention later. Let us be clear: this anti-trade union bill is bad for business and bad for workers. The onl...
Sandra White SNP
With reference to what the member said when she opened her speech, will she and her colleagues support employment law being devolved to the Scottish Parliame...
Margaret McDougall Lab
That is not what we are here to discuss and it is not an issue. Removing the ban on the use of agency workers to break strike action—that ban was introduced...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
The member should draw to a close, please.
Margaret McDougall Lab
I am just closing, Presiding Officer. I am delighted that, in my area, North Ayrshire Council last month became the first Scottish National Party-led local a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
You must draw to a close, please.
Margaret McDougall Lab
—so that members are not only setting out their opposition to the bill, but making sure that it is not imposed on Scottish public services. I hope that we c...