Committee
European and External Relations Committee 21 January 2016
21 Jan 2016 · S4 · European and External Relations Committee
Item of business
European Union Reform and Referendum
Professor Auer
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I would never consider the Swiss situation as being a solution for anyone—not even for Switzerland, which is currently in a very difficult position. Let me explain why Switzerland is not a member of the EU. Excuse me, but you are wrong to say that the Swiss Government is in favour of membership—it is not. As in Norway, only one major political party—the Socialist Party—still has accession in its manifesto, although it does not really believe in it any longer and will probably drop it. One of the reasons why Switzerland said no to the EEA in 1992 was our direct democracy system. People got the impression that, if we transferred powers that belong to the Swiss Parliament and the people to the quasi-union, people’s right to participate in government would be reduced and that would be a danger for Swiss direct democracy. Legally speaking, that is not a sound argument, but it was quite efficient politically at the time. The Swiss people have never been asked to join the European Union because the Government has never had the courage to ask the question—perhaps because it knows the answer. It is strange, because Switzerland and the European Union are very similar. We have the same kind of federalist polity, both have been built from the bottom up rather than from the top down, we have the same mechanism of immediate application of federal law, and so on. I will not go into details. The bilateral treaty system has been very successful for us, in a way. According to some economists, the gross national product has increased significantly with the treaties. Most people are happy with the solution although not with the new provision in the constitution, which has not yet been implemented, as I discussed earlier. That question remains unresolved and open to political debate.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
We move swiftly on to our first agenda item, which is the continuation of our inquiry into European Union reform and the EU referendum. Today we are looking ...
Niels Engelschiøn (Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs)
First of all, thank you very much for inviting us to Edinburgh. We are very pleased to be here. It is the first time for me, and it is a great pleasure to se...
Professor Dr Andreas Auer (Universities of Zurich and Geneva)
I, too, thank the committee very much for inviting me to this beautiful city so that I can inform members about the relationship between Switzerland and the ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much indeed. Dáithí, do you want to go next?
Dáithí O’Ceallaigh (Institute of International and European Affairs)
Thank you very much. I join my colleagues in thanking you for inviting me. About a year ago, the Institute of International and European Affairs, which is b...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much. I invite questions from members.
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I should say at the outset that I am not a Eurosceptic. I agree with the idea that the UK should stay in the EU. I find it interesting that, in Norway, some...
The Convener
SNP
Who is that question for?
Jamie McGrigor
Con
It is for the Norwegian witnesses primarily, but it is also for the Swiss representative.
Niels Engelschiøn
It is not entirely correct to say that the political establishment in Norway is pro-EU, because several parties in Parliament are against Norwegian membershi...
Jamie McGrigor
Con
What is putting the population off Norway’s becoming a full member of the EU instead of its being, in a way, a member without having the ability to influence...
Niels Engelschiøn
I have mentioned fisheries, agriculture and the sovereignty issue. There is no precise answer—this is just speculation—but the Norwegian economy and the work...
Jamie McGrigor
Con
Is there nothing that you can put your finger on and say, “They don’t like that”?
Niels Engelschiøn
No, it is difficult to say. However, given the difficult economic situation that many European countries—particularly those in the eurozone—have faced since ...
Jamie McGrigor
Con
Do you think that Norwegians are particularly against joining the euro?
Niels Engelschiøn
It is about the whole thing. Eighty per cent of Norwegians would say no to EU membership because they know what they have and they do not know what membershi...
The Convener
SNP
Do you want to put the same question to Professor Auer?
Jamie McGrigor
Con
Yes, please. I do not want to hog the discussion, but I would like to hear the Swiss perspective.
Professor Auer
I would never consider the Swiss situation as being a solution for anyone—not even for Switzerland, which is currently in a very difficult position. Let me e...
Jamie McGrigor
Con
Thank you.
The Convener
SNP
Dáithí O’Ceallaigh, you have done some analysis of the other models. You mentioned both the Swiss and Norwegian models, but you also mentioned the Turkish mo...
Dáithí O’Ceallaigh
Throughout the European Union, there is an increasing general dissatisfaction with Brussels. Within all our populations, there is a feeling that the politica...
Jamie McGrigor
Con
Was monetary union a bridge too far?
Dáithí O’Ceallaigh
No. The regulation of the monetary union was there without a bridge, because the individual treasuries and finance ministries were not prepared to give up th...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
SNP
I will pick up Mr O’Ceallaigh’s point about the four unions. You said that the Norwegian, Swiss and Turkish models would not lend themselves to being a UK so...
Dáithí O’Ceallaigh
I honestly think that, were the UK negotiating on its own, its position would be much weaker than it would be were the UK to remain negotiating on the inside...
Willie Coffey
SNP
Partially. I would love to ask Professor Auer for his view. Professor, you have already said that the Swiss relationship is not a particularly good one for ...
Professor Auer
I am sorry, but I did not understand the question.
Willie Coffey
SNP
You have said that the arrangement that Switzerland has is not a particularly good one. What relationship do you think that the UK would have with the EU if ...
Professor Auer
I am sorry, but that is a very difficult question for me to answer. I am convinced that, because it is a strong and important country, the UK could negotiate...