Committee
European and External Relations Committee 21 January 2016
21 Jan 2016 · S4 · European and External Relations Committee
Item of business
European Union Reform and Referendum
Niels Engelschiøn (Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs)
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First of all, thank you very much for inviting us to Edinburgh. We are very pleased to be here. It is the first time for me, and it is a great pleasure to see your beautiful city. I will give a very brief introduction, and then Knut Hermansen and I will share the responsibility for answering your questions. As you will know, Norway has said no twice—in 1972 and 1994—to membership of the European Union or, as it was, the European Economic Community. We believe that three elements contributed to our not wanting to join the EU in 1994: the situation in the agriculture sector, fisheries management and the sovereignty principle. Those were perhaps the three main reasons for the Norwegian population not joining in 1994, and much the same applied to the decision in 1972, too. After that, we had the European Economic Area agreement, which has worked as a political compromise for about 22 years now and is the backbone of our relations with the European Union. It is important to note that every Government and Parliament in question has based its European policy on the EEA agreement as the main agreement in its relations with the European Union. We believe that our EEA agreement effectively ensures equal treatment and predictability for operators and gives us a certain degree of participation in EU processes. It ensures full access to the internal market, with the exception of fisheries and agriculture, and it means that the same rules and regulations apply in Norway as in Scotland, Portugal or any other EU state. Although we have a lot of other agreements—around 74 bilateral or other international agreements—with the European Union, the EEA agreement is by far the most important. I should also mention the Schengen agreement on justice and home affairs and the Dublin co-operation, as a result of which Norway is actually more integrated with the European Union than the United Kingdom. Our co-operation in the area of foreign and security policy is less formalised, but it is still very strong. We align ourselves with a lot of the EU declarations—more than 90 per cent of them last year; participate in the EU battle groups and military and civilian common security and defence policy operations; and have strong dialogue at political and civil service levels. We also take part in the European Defence Agency. All in all, we have a very close relationship with the European Union, which means that we are fully integrated with the internal market. We have to remember that the European Union accounts for around 80 per cent of our imports and exports and that Sweden, Germany, the Netherlands and, of course, the UK are very important commercial partners, so there is no option for not co-operating strongly with it. However, membership is not on the political agenda; indeed, perhaps around 20 per cent of the Norwegian population are in favour of Norway becoming a member of the EU.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
We move swiftly on to our first agenda item, which is the continuation of our inquiry into European Union reform and the EU referendum. Today we are looking ...
Niels Engelschiøn (Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs)
First of all, thank you very much for inviting us to Edinburgh. We are very pleased to be here. It is the first time for me, and it is a great pleasure to se...
Professor Dr Andreas Auer (Universities of Zurich and Geneva)
I, too, thank the committee very much for inviting me to this beautiful city so that I can inform members about the relationship between Switzerland and the ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much indeed. Dáithí, do you want to go next?
Dáithí O’Ceallaigh (Institute of International and European Affairs)
Thank you very much. I join my colleagues in thanking you for inviting me. About a year ago, the Institute of International and European Affairs, which is b...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much. I invite questions from members.
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I should say at the outset that I am not a Eurosceptic. I agree with the idea that the UK should stay in the EU. I find it interesting that, in Norway, some...
The Convener
SNP
Who is that question for?
Jamie McGrigor
Con
It is for the Norwegian witnesses primarily, but it is also for the Swiss representative.
Niels Engelschiøn
It is not entirely correct to say that the political establishment in Norway is pro-EU, because several parties in Parliament are against Norwegian membershi...
Jamie McGrigor
Con
What is putting the population off Norway’s becoming a full member of the EU instead of its being, in a way, a member without having the ability to influence...
Niels Engelschiøn
I have mentioned fisheries, agriculture and the sovereignty issue. There is no precise answer—this is just speculation—but the Norwegian economy and the work...
Jamie McGrigor
Con
Is there nothing that you can put your finger on and say, “They don’t like that”?
Niels Engelschiøn
No, it is difficult to say. However, given the difficult economic situation that many European countries—particularly those in the eurozone—have faced since ...
Jamie McGrigor
Con
Do you think that Norwegians are particularly against joining the euro?
Niels Engelschiøn
It is about the whole thing. Eighty per cent of Norwegians would say no to EU membership because they know what they have and they do not know what membershi...
The Convener
SNP
Do you want to put the same question to Professor Auer?
Jamie McGrigor
Con
Yes, please. I do not want to hog the discussion, but I would like to hear the Swiss perspective.
Professor Auer
I would never consider the Swiss situation as being a solution for anyone—not even for Switzerland, which is currently in a very difficult position. Let me e...
Jamie McGrigor
Con
Thank you.
The Convener
SNP
Dáithí O’Ceallaigh, you have done some analysis of the other models. You mentioned both the Swiss and Norwegian models, but you also mentioned the Turkish mo...
Dáithí O’Ceallaigh
Throughout the European Union, there is an increasing general dissatisfaction with Brussels. Within all our populations, there is a feeling that the politica...
Jamie McGrigor
Con
Was monetary union a bridge too far?
Dáithí O’Ceallaigh
No. The regulation of the monetary union was there without a bridge, because the individual treasuries and finance ministries were not prepared to give up th...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
SNP
I will pick up Mr O’Ceallaigh’s point about the four unions. You said that the Norwegian, Swiss and Turkish models would not lend themselves to being a UK so...
Dáithí O’Ceallaigh
I honestly think that, were the UK negotiating on its own, its position would be much weaker than it would be were the UK to remain negotiating on the inside...
Willie Coffey
SNP
Partially. I would love to ask Professor Auer for his view. Professor, you have already said that the Swiss relationship is not a particularly good one for ...
Professor Auer
I am sorry, but I did not understand the question.
Willie Coffey
SNP
You have said that the arrangement that Switzerland has is not a particularly good one. What relationship do you think that the UK would have with the EU if ...
Professor Auer
I am sorry, but that is a very difficult question for me to answer. I am convinced that, because it is a strong and important country, the UK could negotiate...