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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 December 2015

01 Dec 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc and Care) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

We should congratulate all the Health and Sport Committee’s members—and the clerks, of course—for all their hard work on the committee report. We are again looking at a bill that has the potential to help a lot of people to live healthier lives, with better guidance and better support.

Its three main provisions on NVPs—vaping—the duty of candour, and ill treatment and neglect could be beneficial in principle. However, we need to look at each one in depth and to distinguish what is beneficial and what could end up being undesirable and, perhaps, impractical.

I would like to point out a few of the issues where more evidence is required and where we need a better understanding of what the assumed policies aim to do. Some members have pointed out the move towards limiting sale and advertising of nicotine vapour products. Although the move towards restricting products that are harmful is welcome, a large amount of the evidence that was received—we have just heard some from Kevin Stewart—stated that they are less harmful than cigarettes. Of course, we also know that they are a good way of weaning people off smoking tobacco, and there is little doubt that smoking tobacco is worse for a person than vaping. However, there are concerns.

Nicotine is a poison—it was formerly used as an insecticide—and it is an addictive chemical. It affects people’s cardiovascular systems and can even lead to birth defects. That is all well documented. There are therefore concerns that there is some targeting of non-smokers. We hope, of course, that under-18s would be non-smokers. Therefore, I support the Government’s proposals in that respect. We know that there has been targeting even at football matches, at which e-cigarettes have been given away.

I fully appreciate and support the view of Kevin Stewart and others that we need vaping to wean people off the more harmful smoking of tobacco, but vaping is probably not harmless—although I am afraid that we do not have enough evidence. Therefore, there is a very fine line between what the bill seeks to promote as a better alternative to smoking for those who already smoke and the unintentional consequences that it could have in promoting NVPs as being attractive to people who do not smoke or—as some witnesses put it—in glamorising products, in particular to people under 18.

Members will be aware of my member’s bill that is going through Parliament, which aims to raise awareness of the damage that is caused to the respiratory systems of children by second-hand tobacco smoke. As we are not yet aware of the long-term impact on lungs from inhaling vapes, a wise health policy should prevent a larger-scale problem from occurring. Therefore, I support that approach. The measure to prohibit sales of NVPs to under-18s—under-18s only—is a reasonable step.

We know that there is a lack of robust research and evidence, so it is better to err on the side of safety in protecting young people. Stewart Maxwell’s evidence on that and on the length of time that it takes for cancers to appear from when people start to smoke cigarettes was good enough. We also have to consider the growing vaping market and the word-of-mouth reputation that vaping products obtain among under-18s. The measure is therefore sensible, and is—of course—supported by numerous organisations, including Cancer Research UK.

I also support the provisions that build on the Lib Dem-Labour coalition legislation on smoking bans. Stewart Maxwell was very much involved in that legislation at the beginning. At that time, the British Medical Association’s chairman said that that day would be remembered as

“the time Scotland took a bold and politically courageous step”.

The bill takes that further to protect areas around—of course—hospitals, health centres, general practices and other areas where health is promoted, and it will put Scotland closer to being the tobacco-free generation by 2034 that Malcolm Chisholm mentioned.

Another element of the bill is the duty of candour. Although I believe that that will provide better emotional support to patients, we must ensure that its use is balanced against its necessity. Let us look to the professional opinion of the BMA. I was informed that the measure could add administrative burdens, costs and responsibilities to health boards and general practices. The BMA pointed out that

“Any incident ... which occurs should be seen as an opportunity for improvement and learning”.

We know that doctors, nurses, consultants and every single medical and clinical member of staff want to help their patients and look to provide the best care to them. That is, after all, a basic element of the Hippocratic oath for new doctors as well as an element of the General Medical Council’s standards and ethics guidance. Although I welcome the bill’s raising of awareness of the duty of candour, we must seek further information on how it might affect the relationship between practitioners and patients.

Likewise, part 3 of the bill will introduce offences of wilful neglect and ill treatment by healthcare professionals and organisations. I reiterate that medical personnel do not seek to harm their patients, so I would tread very carefully on that point as it moves forward at the various stages of the bill. I ask the minister in her summing up to give specifications on that matter, given the current context in which practitioners work. We know that health boards and, as a consequence, doctors, nurses and accident and emergency departments are squeezed very tightly financially, and we recently saw health boards borrowing from the Scottish Government to break even. Departments are understaffed, staff are overworked and targets are pressing. I would be grateful if the minister would address my concerns that health professionals and care workers should not be unduly criminalised for any failings.

Our concerns are echoed by the BMA and its concerns focus on the concern that by imposing such sanctions we may still not be solving

“the serious failings in health care delivery in Scotland... and ... adding a criminal offence would not provide any additional protection for patients.”

I am pleased to see that we are advancing further in promoting patient care and health. If the bill is to achieve an optimal result, we need to look at its provisions a little more closely and build upon it more constructively for the future.

15:55  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15003, in the name of Maureen Watt, on the Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc and Care) (Scotland) Bill. Membe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
I call Maureen Watt. You have 14 minutes. You can start as soon as you are ready, Ms Watt. 14:31
The Minister for Public Health (Maureen Watt) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 1 debate on the principles of the Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc and Care) (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Health and Sport Comm...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Can the minister give us an indication whether any patients who are smokers have signed themselves out of hospital early because they have been unable to smo...
Maureen Watt SNP
I am not aware of that happening. If the member has evidence of that happening, I am happy to look into it. Obviously, I hope that patients would discuss the...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister give way?
Maureen Watt SNP
I have to make progress. If the member wants to ask me a question during her speech, I will happily answer it when I am closing. Key to this will be the org...
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) Lab
At one time there were adverts to promote cigarettes showing Ronald Reagan giving them as Christmas gifts or Superman jumping out of a helicopter, but long g...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I will begin by clarifying a question that I want to ask the minister, just so that she is clear from the outset, as I would very much like an answer in her ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I let the open debate speakers know that, at the moment, I will probably be able to give them all up to seven minutes. 15:04
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The Scottish Government bill that we are discussing today makes three very important proposals: the development of policies around tobacco, nicotine and smok...
Maureen Watt SNP
The member will of course know that, in many cases, the Government’s response does not come out before the stage 1 debate and that the reply to the stage 1 r...
Nanette Milne Con
I accept the minister’s explanation but, having sat all day yesterday waiting to get the response, I would probably have been better just to ignore the infor...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
In relation to apologies, does the member welcome, as I do, section 23(2), which makes it clear that the offering of an apology, a statement of sorrow or reg...
Nanette Milne Con
I agree with the member on that. I would be very concerned if that was not stated in the bill. A similar lack of definition is cited by opponents of the pro...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We now move to the open debate. We have a bit of time in hand, so members each have seven minutes or thereby. 15:12
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am glad to be given the opportunity to speak in today’s debate on the Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc and Care) (Scotland) Bill. As members are aware, the bi...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Mr Maxwell quoted Public Health England, which in its review states that smoking prevalence has declined in adults and young people since e-cigarettes were i...
Stewart Maxwell SNP
I disagree with the comments of my esteemed colleague from Aberdeen. We can see a pattern over the years in how tobacco companies have tried to get new marke...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
We all support the Scottish Government’s ambitious target to reduce smoking prevalence to 5 per cent by 2034, but the simple fact is that we are not making n...
Maureen Watt SNP
Mr Chisholm will know that, for the NHS to recommend NVPs as a smoking cessation product, they would have to be licensed. E-cigarette companies have not aske...
Malcolm Chisholm Lab
The committee will look into that issue and the complexities of the process. That certainly needs to be looked at. The need for a register is widely accepte...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
Since becoming an MSP, I have taken a keen interest in reducing the harm that smoking causes. In July 2001, I proposed a regulation of smoking bill, with the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I am at a loss for words. I call Hanzala Malik, to be followed by Kevin Stewart. 15:34
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer, and good afternoon to you. When speaking in today’s stage 1 debate on the Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc and Care) (Scotland) B...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
First, the confession: I was a smoker. I started smoking when I was 14, and not because of advertising or parental influence—my parents did not smoke. There ...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD) LD
We should congratulate all the Health and Sport Committee’s members—and the clerks, of course—for all their hard work on the committee report. We are again l...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the progress that has been made on smoking by the Scottish Parliament, including members here present. When it comes to smoking, we need to strike...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP) SNP
There has been a lot of focus on part 1 of the bill, and I make no apology for focusing a lot of my attention on it, too. It is interesting to hear confessi...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
Are we correct to use the word “choice”? Where addictions are concerned, it is precisely the case that choice is absent because that health issue denies peop...