Committee
Justice Committee 19 January 2016
19 Jan 2016 · S4 · Justice Committee
Item of business
Community Justice (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I thank members for their thoughtful contributions to this debate on the first group of amendments. I have listened carefully to the points that have been made by committee members, and by my party colleagues in giving their views on the amendments that have been lodged by Opposition members. For the reasons that I gave earlier, I have a particular concern about amendment 94 because it would broaden the bill out to include primary prevention. That said, I have, with regard to the other amendments that Alison McInnes has lodged, some sympathy with the desire that she expressed eloquently in her comments—and which Margaret Mitchell commented on—to reflect the breadth of activities that are covered. Elaine Murray also made the important point that we need to give confidence in respect of the kinds of activities that are covered. At this point, I want to express my desire to work with Alison McInnes to come up with a more comprehensive list of activities, so that we do not single out some, but are instead comprehensive in our coverage of what might be included—if it is possible to come up with the right wording. I offer an olive branch to Alison McInnes: if she is prepared not to move her amendments, I will be happy to work with her in advance of stage 3 to see whether we can produce a form of words that will meet the desire that she and other members have expressed to cover the range of activities. I very much sympathise with Margaret McDougall’s point about victim support services. We believe that they will be covered in the national strategy and in engagement with the third sector. A later group of amendments that I will deal with will formalise the relationship with the third sector, which will include services for victims. As Christian Allard said, that will also be dealt with in guidelines on how we engage with such groups as victims. I will listen to the views of the committee, but I wanted to make the particular point to Alison McInnes that I would be happy to work with her to see whether we can come up with an agreed wording, in her name, for stage 3. Amendment 1 agreed to. Amendments 2 to 6 moved—Paul Wheelhouse—and agreed to.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Agenda item 3 is stage 2 proceedings on the Community Justice (Scotland) Bill. Members should have their copies of the bill, the marshalled list and the grou...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 2 to 6, 94, 95, 66, 7, 8, 67, 9, 10, 96, 11 to 15, 68, 69, 16 to 20 and 22 to 27.
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Paul Wheelhouse)
SNP
At stage 1, the committee and stakeholders called for a stronger element of prevention and early intervention to be reflected in the definition of community ...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
The group of amendments relates to changes to the definition of community justice as currently set out in the bill. A great deal of the evidence that we gath...
Margaret McDougall (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Amendment 95 seeks to include the meaning of “community justice” by identifying the risk management and public protection elements of community justice that ...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 31A is in another group. You can persist with it if you want to—I am quite flexible today.
Margaret McDougall
Lab
I am sorry.
The Convener
SNP
Rather than “flexible”, perhaps I should have said “weakened”.
Margaret McDougall
Lab
I can stop and start again later.
The Convener
SNP
Just leave it then. We will keep to the amendments in group 1. Do you want to speak to other amendments in the group—did I stop you in full flow?
Margaret McDougall
Lab
No.
John Finnie
Ind
I want to comment on amendment 11. I welcome the Government’s broadening of the definition. I particularly welcome the categories that have been picked up be...
Roderick Campbell
SNP
As John Finnie is, I am supportive of amendment 11, which will broaden the definition of community justice. It is right that we look beyond “persons who hav...
Elaine Murray
Lab
First of all, I welcome the Government’s work to address the concerns that the committee expressed at stage 1. I support the Government’s amendments. I wan...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
Good morning, minister. Like others, I very much welcome the amendments that have been lodged that take cognisance of concerns that were expressed at stage 1...
Christian Allard
SNP
Good morning, minister. First of all, I would like to compliment the minister and thank him for all the changes with regard to the word “offenders”, which I ...
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
I thank members for their thoughtful contributions to this debate on the first group of amendments. I have listened carefully to the points that have been ma...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 94, in the name of Alison McInnes, has been debated with amendment 1.
Alison McInnes
LD
I will move amendment 94. I have heard what the minister said, but I have also heard the strength of other committee members’ points of view. However, if we ...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 94 be agreed to. Are we all agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) McDougall, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab) McInnes, Alison (North East Scotla...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 5, Against 3, Abstentions 1. Amendment 94 agreed to. Amendment 95 moved—Margaret McDougall.
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 95 be agreed to. Are we all agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) McDougall, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab) McInnes, Alison (North East Scotla...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 5, Against 4, Abstentions 0. Amendment 95 agreed to. Amendment 66 moved—Alison McInnes.
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 66 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) McDougall, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab) McInnes, Alison (North East Scotlan...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 5, Against 3, Abstentions 1. Amendment 66 agreed to. Amendments 7 and 8 moved—Paul Wheelhouse—and agreed to. Amendment ...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 67 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) McDougall, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab) McInnes, Alison (North East Scotlan...