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Committee

Public Petitions Committee 12 January 2016

12 Jan 2016 · S4 · Public Petitions Committee
Item of business
New Petitions
Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012 (Review) (PE1593)
Jeanette Findlay Watch on SPTV
In terms of direct experience, like Paul, I have not been charged under the 2012 act or indeed under any other act. As you can clearly see, I am a middle-aged woman, and I travel to the football with other people, some of whom are sitting behind me, and some of whom—they will not mind me saying—are even a bit older than me. In no other context of my life am I treated in the same way as I am treated as a football fan. As soon as I become a football fan, I am filmed, stared at and searched. I was travelling on Sunday, and the bus was searched twice. The attitude of police officers is very dangerous, I think. It will not provoke a reaction in me, because that is not how I am, but it is intimidating and provocative. This is the most dangerous thing: the act has created a very poisonous relationship between the police and young fans. That is in nobody’s interest. The police have been using other legislation against us. We have been prevented from protesting; we have been intimidated while protesting. We have had at least seven police complaints upheld. In one case, 19 of us went to Aberdeen to lobby—quite legitimately—outside the SNP spring conference. We were immediately served notice under, I think, section 12 of the Public Order Act 1986. Other groups that were protesting, including trade union groups, which had much larger numbers, had no difficulty whatsoever. That day, the age range of our protesters went from seven to 73. The police subsequently apologised and said that that should not have happened. We were followed from Glasgow to Aberdeen by people from the football intelligence unit. There was no football match that day; we were followed simply because we were going to protest against the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012. When I and a colleague have gone to court to take notes when offensive behaviour cases are being held, we have been intimidated and harassed inside the court rooms. I understand what you are saying about anecdotal evidence, but we are carefully collecting evidence. We have a contact form and an information form on our website, which we ask people to fill in. We follow up and attend cases, we take detailed notes, and we analyse the Government’s statistics. I would like to think that, although what we are saying could be characterised as being anecdotal, it is no more anecdotal than collecting evidence from focus groups, which is what the Stirling evidence was. As someone who has followed football for decades, I can honestly say that I never noticed the police before the act came in. They were clearly there carrying out their duties and making sure people were safe. However, if you asked me how many police were at a given game or what they were doing, I would have been unable to tell you, because I do not remember ever paying any attention to them. It seems to me that that is how it should be. In the run-up to the act and once it was in force, I found how the police conduct themselves at almost every game to be an ordeal.

In the same item of business

The Convener Lab
Our next petition is PE1593, by Paul Quigley on behalf of Fans Against Criminalisation, on a full review of the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threateni...
Paul Quigley (Fans Against Criminalisation)
Thank you for the introduction, convener, and thanks to everyone for having us here to discuss the petition and share our concerns about the 2012 act. I will...
The Convener Lab
Thank you very much for introducing your petition. I will start by asking a question about the understanding of how the act has been implemented. FAC was set...
Paul Quigley
Yes. Even at the start, fans held protests about the legislation in stadiums across the country. For example, fans of Celtic, Rangers, Motherwell, Hearts and...
The Convener Lab
We have talked about the reason why the act was introduced. However, recently—as recently as yesterday—MSPs have lodged motions that have tried to explain th...
Jeanette Findlay (Fans Against Criminalisation)
That proposal was put forward by John Mason MSP, who has repeatedly claimed that the act is primarily about defending Catholics and the Irish community again...
The Convener Lab
In his opening comments, Paul Quigley mentioned the interpretation that has been put on the research that the Scottish Government did. When the Scottish Gove...
Paul Quigley
If you do not mind, I will pass that question to Jeanette Findlay, because I was not at the meeting with Paul Wheelhouse.
Jeanette Findlay
We had a meeting with Paul Wheelhouse before the ministerial statement was made—maybe a fortnight before it—and we made it clear that we were entirely oppose...
The Convener Lab
You have done a lot of research on the pieces of legislation that have been enacted on the issue. There have been reviews of legislation. Have you analysed t...
Paul Quigley
I do not think that we have any specific examples of legislation that has been reviewed. Our understanding was that the review would be similar to the proces...
Jeanette Findlay
It is important to note that the authors of the single piece of evidence that the Government relied on issued two statements to say that, whatever they were ...
The Convener Lab
I have one more point before I open up the discussion to committee members. Have you spoken to people who were interviewed by the University of Stirling abou...
Paul Quigley
We understand that the researchers did not think that the work would be the review of the act. As Jeanette Findlay said, the University of Stirling published...
Jeanette Findlay
The team did not interview FAC formally as part of the process until after the interim report had been produced. The report indicated that somebody from the ...
The Convener Lab
For the record, I was also interviewed by Stirling university’s team. I was not told the purpose of the interview in advance and I discovered only later that...
Jackson Carlaw Con
Surprisingly, only the federal Parliament in Switzerland has written into its articles a statutory obligation to conduct post-legislative scrutiny of the leg...
Jeanette Findlay
It is not possible from the Government figures to answer that question very directly, but I will do it as best I can. The 22 per cent rate is not a Governmen...
Paul Quigley
Jeanette has referred to the “other” category of cases, and those are likely to include instances involving swearing, as has been referred to. Quite a lot of...
Jeanette Findlay
It would be helpful for the committee to understand precisely what we mean by that. The two fans we are referring to are 18-year-olds who were chanting, “Wel...
Jackson Carlaw Con
Thank you for that. That was comprehensive and very interesting. That suggests that there is a slight lack of clarity in all this. You are here representing...
Paul Quigley
There has been a complete change in the culture of the policing regarding how football fans are treated as they go to a football match. That means that someo...
Jeanette Findlay
In terms of direct experience, like Paul, I have not been charged under the 2012 act or indeed under any other act. As you can clearly see, I am a middle-age...
Kenny MacAskill (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP) SNP
Mr Quigley, do you accept that there are games, even in the Scottish premiership, where no police are present in the ground?
Paul Quigley
Yes, I would assume that that would be the case.
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Would it not be the case that the majority of premiership games have a limited police presence, because clubs have to pay for the cost?
Paul Quigley
Obviously, some games will be deemed to be of lesser risk, so yes.
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Do you accept that simply using the level of convictions might not be the criterion to use, because that would also have to apply to rape and sexual offences...
Paul Quigley
No, that would be entirely off topic. When you look at more of the evidence, it suggests that, as I said, cases under the act drag on much longer than other ...
Jeanette Findlay
If conviction rates are not the correct things to be looking at, you should direct that question to the Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs and h...