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Committee

Public Petitions Committee 12 January 2016

12 Jan 2016 · S4 · Public Petitions Committee
Item of business
New Petitions
Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012 (Review) (PE1593)
Paul Quigley (Fans Against Criminalisation) Watch on SPTV
Thank you for the introduction, convener, and thanks to everyone for having us here to discuss the petition and share our concerns about the 2012 act. I will give you a quick overview of who we are and who we represent. We are members of Fans Against Criminalisation, which is a protest group that began in 2011 to oppose the introduction of the legislation. We have since campaigned against it while helping people who have been charged under it and collating our own evidence about those cases. I make the point that our petition does not defend sectarianism. We are not here to defend any hate crime. However, we note that sectarian behaviour, racist behaviour, homophobia and sexism were all covered by previous legislation. Our point of contention with the act concerns its offensive behaviour provisions, which create a new law that criminalises offensiveness. The difficulty with that is the fact that, obviously, offensiveness is subjective. What committee members might find offensive I might not, and vice versa. Therefore, the law becomes practically impossible to police, which creates a blurring of what is legally acceptable. The impact of that is that young men and girls, primarily, are being arrested at football matches. The University of Stirling report showed that the court cases go on for far longer than normal court cases do but that the conviction rate remains shockingly low—and people’s lives are ultimately ruined in the process. We object to the fact that the 2012 act specifically discriminates against football fans. It is a law that applies only to one, demonised, sector of society. We disagree with the law on that basis. The specific reason for the petition is that we feel that the Scottish Government has reneged on its promise to fully review the act, which should have been done in 2015. What was produced as the review was consideration of one piece of evidence—a report by the University of Stirling—which we contend was selectively quoted. For example, it was not mentioned that that piece of research showed that, because so many resources had been diverted to policing offensiveness, there had been a rise in violence at football games. The research also showed that many judges had significant concerns about the human rights implications of the 2012 act because of its curtailment of freedom of speech and of political expression. Those issues have still to be properly reviewed. Another piece of evidence was an opinion poll that YouGov carried out, which we felt was somewhat skewed. In 2011, an attempt was made to rush through the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Bill as emergency legislation. However, the then First Minister said that he wished to build consensus on the bill. Five years on from that, all that remains is a consensus of opposition to the legislation. Every Opposition party in the Parliament, as well as independent MSPs, voted against the bill. As far as I am aware, none of them have changed their minds on the matter. There are still concerns about the legislation among lawyers, judges, civil rights groups, football fans and football clubs. The problem is that people have not been given ample opportunity to present evidence in a review process to show why they are against the 2012 act. We have heard about just one side of the legislation. The continued controversy surrounding it and the incredibly low conviction rate in cases that are brought under it demonstrate that it is not working. It is now clearly in the public interest to have a full review of the act and give the different stakeholders the opportunity to input into that process. We would want to be part of that, with a view to having the act ultimately repealed.

In the same item of business

The Convener Lab
Our next petition is PE1593, by Paul Quigley on behalf of Fans Against Criminalisation, on a full review of the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threateni...
Paul Quigley (Fans Against Criminalisation)
Thank you for the introduction, convener, and thanks to everyone for having us here to discuss the petition and share our concerns about the 2012 act. I will...
The Convener Lab
Thank you very much for introducing your petition. I will start by asking a question about the understanding of how the act has been implemented. FAC was set...
Paul Quigley
Yes. Even at the start, fans held protests about the legislation in stadiums across the country. For example, fans of Celtic, Rangers, Motherwell, Hearts and...
The Convener Lab
We have talked about the reason why the act was introduced. However, recently—as recently as yesterday—MSPs have lodged motions that have tried to explain th...
Jeanette Findlay (Fans Against Criminalisation)
That proposal was put forward by John Mason MSP, who has repeatedly claimed that the act is primarily about defending Catholics and the Irish community again...
The Convener Lab
In his opening comments, Paul Quigley mentioned the interpretation that has been put on the research that the Scottish Government did. When the Scottish Gove...
Paul Quigley
If you do not mind, I will pass that question to Jeanette Findlay, because I was not at the meeting with Paul Wheelhouse.
Jeanette Findlay
We had a meeting with Paul Wheelhouse before the ministerial statement was made—maybe a fortnight before it—and we made it clear that we were entirely oppose...
The Convener Lab
You have done a lot of research on the pieces of legislation that have been enacted on the issue. There have been reviews of legislation. Have you analysed t...
Paul Quigley
I do not think that we have any specific examples of legislation that has been reviewed. Our understanding was that the review would be similar to the proces...
Jeanette Findlay
It is important to note that the authors of the single piece of evidence that the Government relied on issued two statements to say that, whatever they were ...
The Convener Lab
I have one more point before I open up the discussion to committee members. Have you spoken to people who were interviewed by the University of Stirling abou...
Paul Quigley
We understand that the researchers did not think that the work would be the review of the act. As Jeanette Findlay said, the University of Stirling published...
Jeanette Findlay
The team did not interview FAC formally as part of the process until after the interim report had been produced. The report indicated that somebody from the ...
The Convener Lab
For the record, I was also interviewed by Stirling university’s team. I was not told the purpose of the interview in advance and I discovered only later that...
Jackson Carlaw Con
Surprisingly, only the federal Parliament in Switzerland has written into its articles a statutory obligation to conduct post-legislative scrutiny of the leg...
Jeanette Findlay
It is not possible from the Government figures to answer that question very directly, but I will do it as best I can. The 22 per cent rate is not a Governmen...
Paul Quigley
Jeanette has referred to the “other” category of cases, and those are likely to include instances involving swearing, as has been referred to. Quite a lot of...
Jeanette Findlay
It would be helpful for the committee to understand precisely what we mean by that. The two fans we are referring to are 18-year-olds who were chanting, “Wel...
Jackson Carlaw Con
Thank you for that. That was comprehensive and very interesting. That suggests that there is a slight lack of clarity in all this. You are here representing...
Paul Quigley
There has been a complete change in the culture of the policing regarding how football fans are treated as they go to a football match. That means that someo...
Jeanette Findlay
In terms of direct experience, like Paul, I have not been charged under the 2012 act or indeed under any other act. As you can clearly see, I am a middle-age...
Kenny MacAskill (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP) SNP
Mr Quigley, do you accept that there are games, even in the Scottish premiership, where no police are present in the ground?
Paul Quigley
Yes, I would assume that that would be the case.
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Would it not be the case that the majority of premiership games have a limited police presence, because clubs have to pay for the cost?
Paul Quigley
Obviously, some games will be deemed to be of lesser risk, so yes.
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Do you accept that simply using the level of convictions might not be the criterion to use, because that would also have to apply to rape and sexual offences...
Paul Quigley
No, that would be entirely off topic. When you look at more of the evidence, it suggests that, as I said, cases under the act drag on much longer than other ...
Jeanette Findlay
If conviction rates are not the correct things to be looking at, you should direct that question to the Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs and h...