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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 January 2016

14 Jan 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill: Stage 1
Simpson, Dr Richard Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

Yes—but Audit Scotland’s function is somewhat different. It does not forecast; it scrutinises in retrospect, which is quite different.

The Finance Committee’s report is useful in that it seeks clarity on the functions of scrutiny through a memorandum of understanding. Some of the issues, such as agreement to the methodology, might be clarified by that. There can be differences between methodologies because econometrics is not a precise science. Other issues include assessment of the forecasting methods, testing of the suggested numbers and propositions, commentary on initial assumptions and forecasts, and assessment of the reasonableness of the forecasts and any revised forecasts. Even that duplication does not give me the comfort that I would like, because “reasonableness” is a fairly low threshold, as a Conservative colleague indicated.

One of the biggest problems that we have had throughout my time in Parliament has been that we have looked only one year ahead; there has been a lack of looking forward and of long-term strategies. For example, although we have a long-term strategy for climate change, the Government has, for one reason or another, missed the annual targets. I accept that has not been entirely its fault. The Scottish Fiscal Commission should look not just at the Government’s forecasts for its one-year budgets; it should insist on long-term scrutiny. How will things be made up over the long term?

It is the same with health; as Audit Scotland has told us, our health budgets have all been short term. We need to think about the long-term prospects. We hold our health boards to account only for one-year periods, with a bit of brokerage. That does not serve us well as a country, so we need to take a much longer perspective. If the Fiscal Commission’s independence is clear and is not jeopardised by its having an advisory role, it will be very effective.

The bill is welcome, although some issues could be addressed. I hope that at stage 2 the Finance Committee continues the excellent work that it has done by lodging amendments that will at least challenge the Government to look closely at the alternatives at stage 3, in order to ensure the independence of this important commission.

16:17  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15303, in the name of John Swinney, on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill. 15:37
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Joe FitzPatrick) SNP
The Deputy First Minister is unable to participate in the debate, as he is attending a family funeral. Therefore, I will be representing the Scottish Governm...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I am sure that the minister will be aware of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development principles that apply to financial institutions of th...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
That brings me to my next point. The Scottish Parliament information centre briefing on the bill demonstrates that, of 23 independent fiscal institutions in ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
We heard yesterday at the Finance Committee that, although the OBR speaks to the Department for Work and Pensions and HM Revenue and Customs, they are not al...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
Everyone across the UK should thank the Finance Committee for the light that it has shone on the way in which the OBR deliberates. There are some good quotes...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to speak in this debate on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill, and I want to highlight some key areas that the Finance Committee considered dur...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate on the Scottish Fiscal Commission, and commend the Finance Committee, which I have recently joined, ...
John Mason SNP
I am interested in the member’s use of the word “watchdog”. A watchdog does not do the work itself; rather, it watches someone else doing it. Does she mean t...
Jackie Baillie Lab
It sounded as though that was Mr Mason’s conversion to the commission doing the forecasting. If that is so, I very much welcome that. I will look at the con...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jackie Baillie Lab
Let me make some progress. The commission will interact regularly with Government officials and ministers in order to do its job. Witnesses who gave evidenc...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
Has Jackie Baillie read the Fiscal Commission’s report on the draft budget 2016-17?
Jackie Baillie Lab
Indeed I have, and if the minister had read the previous report he would know that the commission keeps asking for information about behavioural forecasting ...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jackie Baillie Lab
No—I really am running out of time. We—including the minister—would be wise to listen to the views of those experts. They believe that the Scottish Fiscal C...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
I, too, thank the clerks, witnesses, experts and SPICe for all their efforts in helping us to scrutinise the bill. I express personal gratitude—at the risk o...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Gavin Brown Con
Perhaps Mr Fitzpatrick will tell me what is an unreasonable number—we live in hope.
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
In the Fiscal Commission’s reports on last year’s budget, it made it clear to the Deputy First Minister that it thought that his predictions for non-domestic...
Gavin Brown Con
The minister would have been better to stay away from that example, because it contradicts what he said in his opening speech and what the Deputy First Minis...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We now move to the open debate. I call Chic Brodie, to be followed by Dr Richard Simpson. Four minutes, please. 16:09
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer—although I confess that I do not know how to compress into a four-minute speech the importance of the creation on a statutory ba...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will Chic Brodie give way on that point?
Chic Brodie SNP
No, I will not. I have only four minutes. The OBR made a detailed projection of economic performance parameters, including the oil and gas outlook, as the b...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I have read the Finance Committee’s report and think that it is one of the best that I have read. I also thought that the convener’s speech got to the nub of...
John Mason SNP
Does Richard Simpson accept that Audit Scotland, which gives advice, is independent?
Dr Simpson Lab
Yes—but Audit Scotland’s function is somewhat different. It does not forecast; it scrutinises in retrospect, which is quite different. The Finance Committee...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
I will cover a couple of areas on which the committee took evidence. My colleague John Mason dissented on areas in the report about forecasting, on which he ...
Jackie Baillie Lab
Will Mark McDonald take an intervention?