Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 14 January 2016
14 Jan 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill: Stage 1
I have read the Finance Committee’s report and think that it is one of the best that I have read. I also thought that the convener’s speech got to the nub of the problem, although he said that there are other issues. Chic Brodie’s speech illustrated the point that forecasting is an inexact science. We all know that, and we know that there are some areas in public life in which duplication is appropriate. In this area, such duplication and understanding of the differences between forecasts are fundamental to the Parliament’s understanding.
I welcome some aspects of John Swinney’s response to the committee; I accept and welcome the five-yearly independent review, as I welcome the fact that we are going to get an annual report from the SFC.
However, the Government will endanger its own creation by giving the SFC a greater advisory role. Although that could be seen in the short term as being okay, it could also, as the convener pointed out, damage the independence of the commission. If we are to have confidence in our new situation, with our new taxation powers, that independence is absolutely important.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15303, in the name of John Swinney, on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill. 15:37
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Joe FitzPatrick)
SNP
The Deputy First Minister is unable to participate in the debate, as he is attending a family funeral. Therefore, I will be representing the Scottish Governm...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
I am sure that the minister will be aware of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development principles that apply to financial institutions of th...
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
That brings me to my next point. The Scottish Parliament information centre briefing on the bill demonstrates that, of 23 independent fiscal institutions in ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
We heard yesterday at the Finance Committee that, although the OBR speaks to the Department for Work and Pensions and HM Revenue and Customs, they are not al...
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
Everyone across the UK should thank the Finance Committee for the light that it has shone on the way in which the OBR deliberates. There are some good quotes...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
SNP
I am pleased to speak in this debate on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill, and I want to highlight some key areas that the Finance Committee considered dur...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate on the Scottish Fiscal Commission, and commend the Finance Committee, which I have recently joined, ...
John Mason
SNP
I am interested in the member’s use of the word “watchdog”. A watchdog does not do the work itself; rather, it watches someone else doing it. Does she mean t...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
It sounded as though that was Mr Mason’s conversion to the commission doing the forecasting. If that is so, I very much welcome that. I will look at the con...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Let me make some progress. The commission will interact regularly with Government officials and ministers in order to do its job. Witnesses who gave evidenc...
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
Has Jackie Baillie read the Fiscal Commission’s report on the draft budget 2016-17?
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Indeed I have, and if the minister had read the previous report he would know that the commission keeps asking for information about behavioural forecasting ...
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jackie Baillie
Lab
No—I really am running out of time. We—including the minister—would be wise to listen to the views of those experts. They believe that the Scottish Fiscal C...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I, too, thank the clerks, witnesses, experts and SPICe for all their efforts in helping us to scrutinise the bill. I express personal gratitude—at the risk o...
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Gavin Brown
Con
Perhaps Mr Fitzpatrick will tell me what is an unreasonable number—we live in hope.
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
In the Fiscal Commission’s reports on last year’s budget, it made it clear to the Deputy First Minister that it thought that his predictions for non-domestic...
Gavin Brown
Con
The minister would have been better to stay away from that example, because it contradicts what he said in his opening speech and what the Deputy First Minis...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We now move to the open debate. I call Chic Brodie, to be followed by Dr Richard Simpson. Four minutes, please. 16:09
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer—although I confess that I do not know how to compress into a four-minute speech the importance of the creation on a statutory ba...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Will Chic Brodie give way on that point?
Chic Brodie
SNP
No, I will not. I have only four minutes. The OBR made a detailed projection of economic performance parameters, including the oil and gas outlook, as the b...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I have read the Finance Committee’s report and think that it is one of the best that I have read. I also thought that the convener’s speech got to the nub of...
John Mason
SNP
Does Richard Simpson accept that Audit Scotland, which gives advice, is independent?
Dr Simpson
Lab
Yes—but Audit Scotland’s function is somewhat different. It does not forecast; it scrutinises in retrospect, which is quite different. The Finance Committee...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
SNP
I will cover a couple of areas on which the committee took evidence. My colleague John Mason dissented on areas in the report about forecasting, on which he ...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Will Mark McDonald take an intervention?