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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 January 2016

14 Jan 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Higher Education Governance (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

It seems to me that we have debated the bill and its measures a number of times, so it is quite hard to believe that we are just at the stage 1 debate. Nonetheless, that is the case, and there is therefore some value in turning back to the bill’s first principles and to why, throughout the process, Labour has taken the position that it has taken.

We support democratic and transparent governance in our higher education institutions. It is our view that, as they are the recipients of more than £1 billion of public funding every year and are central to the future of Scotland, it is reasonable that we ensure that their governance is modern, transparent and fit for purpose.

We also support trade union and student representation on the council. That should be no surprise: we are the Labour Party and of course we support trade union representation. We have never accepted the argument mounted by some that trade union representatives on a body such as the council will face conflicts of interests and sometimes difficult situations when they are part of making collective decisions that those who they represent might find hard to understand. Those of us who have been trade union activists in other lives know that wherever trade unions have representation that is the sort of difficulty and contradiction that representatives have to deal with every day.

As a principle, we support the autonomy and academic freedom of our universities. Over centuries that has been one of their greatest strengths and it must be preserved.

Finally, we have been at pains to be clear that we do not support measures that pose a risk to the fiscal basis of the higher education sector through jeopardising either the institutions’ charitable status or their ONS classification.

Underpinning all that is our acceptance that the legislation is needed, largely because, we would argue, the voluntary code has failed. There has been a serious question around transparency of governance in the sector over recent years, which is perhaps most dramatically characterised by pay settlements for senior staff and particular principals. Although some have argued that the voluntary code developed by the principal of one of our universities would be enough, we are not convinced, because the voluntary code is in place but the transparency is not.

The University and College Union Scotland, in the helpful briefing that it provided for today’s debate, points out that after the voluntary code was put in place, it submitted freedom of information requests to try to ascertain how principals’ pay had been determined in remuneration committees. Only a handful of the 19 higher education institutions in Scottish were willing to provide that information, and many of those that were provided it in a form so redacted as to be completely useless. Therefore it is not the case that the voluntary code is enough.

Given that we are at stage 1 of the bill, we are entitled to consider the bill as introduced. Although we support the principle of the bill, we have been very clear that the bill as introduced fails on many counts. It fails to describe in detail the process of the election of chairs—a measure that we support—and includes sweeping discretionary ministerial powers that could be used to change the governance of higher education institutions in the future without reference to Parliament. The bill veers into areas that seem to us to be completely unnecessary, such as the size of the academic court, and it has ignored the historical position of rectors.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
Good afternoon. The first item of business this afternoon is a debate on motion S4M-15304, in the name of Angela Constance, on the Higher Education Governanc...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Angela Constance) SNP
I am delighted to open the debate. I start by thanking the Education and Culture Committee for its stage 1 report, and also the Finance Committee and the Del...
Jim Eadie (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the thrust of the bill, which seeks to make our universities’ governance arrangements more inclusive and accountable. The cabinet secretary will be...
Angela Constance SNP
As I have said to people repeatedly, our universities are and will remain autonomous. There is nothing in the bill as introduced, nor will there be anything ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary tell us where the mathematics or arithmetic is to back up that point?
Angela Constance SNP
We can all have a good, robust debate about mathematics. I could take issue with some of the arithmetic and the evidence that was presented to the committee....
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Angela Constance SNP
Perhaps I will if there is time later, Mr Brodie. I am keen to make more progress. In summary, we will require HEIs to advertise those positions. Interested...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Stewart Maxwell to speak on behalf of the Education and Culture Committee. 14:11
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
There is a strong consensus that our higher education institutions should uphold the highest standards of governance. However, there are differences of opini...
Chic Brodie SNP
Is it not conceivable that the rector, having been elected by the wider franchise, could take a co-chair’s role in looking at the policy of the university? T...
Stewart Maxwell SNP
That is one of the possible models that could arise from the Scottish Government’s suggestions and the work that the Government and the sector will take on. ...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
It seems to me that we have debated the bill and its measures a number of times, so it is quite hard to believe that we are just at the stage 1 debate. Nonet...
Jim Eadie SNP
The member will be aware that the University of Edinburgh has very strong and inclusive governance arrangements, which include the election of the rector by ...
Iain Gray Lab
In light of the amendments that the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning has promised to lodge, the bill may at least recognise the strength...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
When the bill was first mooted, the Scottish Government made it very clear that its only intention was to make some minor amendments to allow greater transpa...
Jim Eadie SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Liz Smith Con
I will not, if the member does not mind. It became increasingly evident that there was some seriously flawed thinking in the bill when it came to the questi...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Liz Smith Con
If the member does not mind, I will not as I am very short of time. That crucial point was very clearly expressed by Alastair Sim, Professor Anton Muscatell...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Ms Smith, can I stop you for just a second? I am afraid that we had a slight problem with the clock, so please do not think that you are at 10 minutes. I hav...
Liz Smith Con
I will take 20 minutes, Presiding Officer, if you so wish. Laughter. How long do I have?
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I can give you another two or three minutes.
Liz Smith Con
Thank you very much. The third issue, which is crucial, is about governance and democratic accountability. Some commentators seem to argue that the universi...
Jim Eadie SNP
Will the member give way?
Liz Smith Con
I am in my last minute. Governance arrangements that minimise the likelihood of serious conflict in the governing body are those that are most likely to pro...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
I welcome this stage 1 debate although, like Iain Gray, I feel as if we have had this debate already on a number of occasions. I want to raise a couple of ...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
George Adam has mentioned the amendments that will be lodged at stage 2. Will they be effective in the case of the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland and Glasgo...
George Adam SNP
I remember their evidence well. I will need to wait and see what is proposed at stage 2 in order to discuss where we might go with that. A lot of our discu...
Cara Hilton (Dunfermline) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to follow George Adam. I think that that was the first time that he did not mention Paisley in a speech—very novel. It is pleasing, too, to have...