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Committee

Finance Committee 06 January 2016

06 Jan 2016 · S4 · Finance Committee
Item of business
Draft Budget 2016-17
Lady Susan Rice CBE (Scottish Fiscal Commission) Watch on SPTV
Thank you very much for having us back so soon after our last visit to the committee. On behalf of the commission, I offer you all good wishes for the new year. I also offer Andrew Hughes Hallett’s apologies; he really wanted to be with us. I assure the committee that the three of us spent many hours on a phone call yesterday, so Campbell Leith and I are very current with Andrew’s thinking. As with the run-up to the writing and finalisation of the report, if there are questions that we think are in his area of expertise, we will let you know that he might be able to add something further. Since we last met on 25 November, the commission has published its “Report on Draft Budget 2016-17”. We concluded that the forecasts were reasonable and made a number of recommendations. We note in particular that the forecasts are now being made on a five-year basis, which is good as it makes them consistent with other forecasts in the UK. In our eyes, it also perhaps adds some urgency to making some enhancements to the Scottish Government’s forecasting methodologies that would make them more suitable for that five-year time frame. You will have seen that our report has evolved: it is longer and fuller in explanation and background, and it contains appendices showing not just our activities over the year but the minutes of our challenge meetings with the Scottish Government. We started producing those minutes in August when we had the resources to do so. As minutes of meetings should be, they are agreed by all participants. As I said, the report has evolved—it even has a cover and paragraph numbers. I say that tongue in cheek, but we expect it to continue to evolve over time. Our way of working has also evolved, and we hope that that is apparent to some extent in the report. We value our engagement with the Finance Committee and we have taken steps, such as producing the minutes, to provide evidence of transparency and independence—two themes that have come up in our discussions with the committee over the past year. We note that the Finance Committee has published its report on the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill; clearly, once the bill is finalised, it will lead to further evolution of the commission over time. In our report, we have made some promises for the future. We have promised to develop a protocol in the coming year on how we work and how we interact with the Scottish Government. We have begun some early thinking on that. We state that we will do our own analysis of the outturn numbers once we have a full year’s worth of outturn numbers for the devolved taxes. That is really important. We know that the Scottish Government will do that as well and clearly we will need to see where that takes us. We also state that we will begin a programme of producing some technical papers and we are just starting to think about what they might comprise. We do not have any in the hopper at the moment so please do not look for them in a week or two, but they will come. To conclude, I will state succinctly our key concerns in this year’s assessment and scrutiny of the Scottish Government’s forecasts. On LBTT, we were pleased that, in looking at the tax for additional properties, the Scottish Government at least speculated and talked about behavioural factors. We think that those are important for all aspects of LBTT transactions, particularly given the five-year forecast time horizon. To our minds, it is increasingly urgent that the modelling for LBTT moves on and begins to incorporate appropriate behavioural factors. There was discussion in the earlier evidence session about policy—today’s policy and tomorrow’s policy—and we are all keeping an eye on whether the Scottish Government’s policy on landfill is having the effect that it is expected to have. The landfill tax is an area of real focus. Non-domestic rates income is Andrew Hughes Hallett’s key area of focus. As you will see in the report, we think that we have to bottom out the nature of the impact of buoyancy through the cycle—particularly what happens cyclically in terms of buoyancy. Once we have our arms around that, we can begin to pull in and look at wider and broader economic factors. There is no real data on the additional properties tax. For that segment, we have very little to go on in Scotland, as we do not know a lot about who owns additional properties and how many they own. There is speculation about what the pool of properties might be, but some further work must be done in that area as well. Finally, it is about outturns, which I just mentioned. We need to see what really happened in relation to previous forecasts. Those are the areas of concern that we have expressed in the report. We have also expressed them verbally to the Scottish Government. We expect the Scottish Government to get back to us, as promised, with its views on our recommendations, outlining its plans and how it intends to react to those recommendations. We have stated in various fora, and I state again, that we believe that the Scottish Government will likely need to enhance its forecasting resources in order, for instance, to develop the LBTT model further. That is what we expect from the Scottish Government. I invite the Finance Committee to give any feedback that it has on the report in addition to asking its questions.

In the same item of business

The Convener SNP
Let us get the show back on the road. We will now take evidence on the draft budget 2016-17 from the Scottish Fiscal Commission. We are joined by Lady Susan ...
Lady Susan Rice CBE (Scottish Fiscal Commission)
Thank you very much for having us back so soon after our last visit to the committee. On behalf of the commission, I offer you all good wishes for the new ye...
The Convener SNP
Thank you very much, Lady Rice. Professor Leith, is there anything that you wish to add at this point?
Professor Campbell Leith (Scottish Fiscal Commission)
No, thank you.
The Convener SNP
The report is excellent and comprehensive. It fulfils the transparency criteria because you have given great detail on all the meetings that you have had, wi...
Lady Rice
There are two aspects to that. The first is the importance of the Best and Kleven work, which Campbell Leith is best equipped to speak to. The other is highl...
Professor Leith
The Best and Kleven paper is an academic paper that looks at the impact on the property market of changing property transaction taxes. It is one of a relativ...
The Convener SNP
Okay. Thank you for that. Paragraph 3.5 of the report states: “What drove the Commission’s initial concerns is that the current forecasting methods essent...
Professor Leith
The current approach to forecasting residential LBTT revenues is essentially built up from a forecast for house prices and a forecast for transactions, which...
The Convener SNP
Okay. Thank you for that. In terms of non-domestic rates income, paragraph 5.4 of the SFC report states: “In the forecasting of buoyancy for the 2015-16 D...
Professor Leith
Okay. Last year, the Scottish Government approached the issue of forecasting buoyancy by starting from the long-run average, then it looked at a range of eco...
The Convener SNP
Thank you for that comprehensive answer. I move on to the additional land and buildings transaction tax, which is new for 2016-17. Paragraph 7.1 of your rep...
Professor Leith
The figures are from the Scottish Government; we are talking through the various adjustments that the Government has made to the underlying forecast. There i...
The Convener SNP
That is fine. In the section of your report entitled “Improving the Forecasting Process”, you say in paragraph 8.2: “data limitations may place a constrain...
Professor Leith
A number of improvements have been made in data availability through the years. For the buoyancy figures, we now have a longer historical time series, albeit...
The Convener SNP
You would also like more emphasis on behavioural responses.
Professor Leith
Yes.
Lady Rice
I will add a footnote to what Campbell Leith said. There might be instances in which it is not possible to get data. For example, at the high end of property...
The Convener SNP
I will now open out the session. The first colleague to ask questions will be John Mason.
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Thank you for your report, which makes good reading. I picked out a few things on my way through it. Lady Rice mentioned having a protocol. That is referred ...
Lady Rice
I am searching for the right word, which might not be a technical word. The purpose of the protocol is to respond to some conversations that we have had with...
John Mason SNP
That is helpful. There will probably be an agreement between the commission and the Government, but the protocol will give the commission’s angle on how it v...
Lady Rice
The protocol will set out how we intend to do our work.
Professor Leith
The way in which we develop the protocol will be contingent on the remit that we ultimately get from the Scottish Fiscal Commission Bill and the response to ...
John Mason SNP
I will come back to that later, but first I will turn to other specifics. Paragraph 3.5 on page 8 of the SFC’s report highlights concerns “that the current ...
Professor Leith
The nuts and bolts of forecasting are about discerning what is going on and discerning whether something is a long-term trend or whether there are just cycli...
John Mason SNP
If a new trend is starting, surely it is impossible to predict.
Professor Leith
There are techniques for identifying time variation in trends, so people can see that a historical trend no longer applies to the current data releases.
John Mason SNP
So it is a question of picking up a new trend once it has started.
Professor Leith
It depends. In simple statistical models, techniques can be used that allow people to pick up new trends as they develop. The idea is that turning points are...